Lousy Night for Carlos Villanueva: Jays lose to Rays
by Tom Dakers on Aug 3, 2011 10:23 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays Game Recaps
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PrintThat was awful in a lot of ways. Everything Carlos Villanueva threw was hit hard, or bunted. The Rays bunted 3 straight times, in the second inning, two squeeze bunts and a bunt single. We didn't get an out on any of them. I didn't understand why they would want to bunt because, when they swung the bat, the ball was going a long way. Carlos gave up 3 home runs, 9 hits and 8 earned in 2.2 innings. He was awful. In his last 4 starts he has an ERA of 9.31. I really hope that was his last start.
Jesse Litsch gave up 3.1 scoreless innings of relief. Wil Ledezma gave up 3 hits and a walk but only 1 run in his inning. He did strikeout 3. Shawn Camp pitched a scoreless 9th.
On offense we did little. J.P. Arencibia lead off the 3rd with a home run, that was his 18th of the season. Our next hit was a 2 out single by Aaron Hill in the 7th. We had 5 hits in total. Colby Rasmus had his 3rd hit as a Jay.
No JoD. JP came closest at .061 WPA. Carlos gets the Towers award for a -.408 WPA.
Tomorrow we have a noon Eastern start. Brett Cecil (4-4, 4.34) goes against Wade Davis (8-7, 4.62) in the rubber match.
John, no matter what Craig might think, I know you value my opinion above all others, it's time to stick a fork in Villanueva's time as a starter. He was ok for a bit, but he hasn't seen the 7th inning in a month and he really isn't fooling anyone. He has given up 44 its in his last 31.1 innings and has 3 strikeouts in his last 3 starts. It was fun while it lasted, but it is time to look at someone else. Or perhaps forfeit when his turn comes around.
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Time for a change
He got lucky in the game against the Os, not so lucky against the Rays. All the fastball misses are up and out over the plate. He’s surviving with his junk pitches, which won’t work against teams besides the Orioles.
He was money out the pen, but it looks like he is very tired. Time to shuffle it up.
C’mon, third place.
Carlos
Carlos was going to be shut down sooner or later.
by Canguy on Aug 3, 2011 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Or perhaps forfeit when his turn comes around.
I thought this was a place where crazy comments are weeded out and arguments are made with reason. Has CV been bad of late, yes. Has he been Josh Towers bad? No. Is it an automatic loss when he pitches, No. I like what was suggested earlier, where the Jays watch his innings. If a bump in the schedule makes him miss a start, so be it. But still let him pitch out the rest of the season. I think he’s earned that.
I like bluebird as a sports blog cause normally noone jumps to hasty conclusions. If I wanted that I would read “Raptors Republic”.
Holy poop
It’s called hyperbole. Writers use it for emphasis.
Really though, he’s been not-at-all-good in the past month or so.
Brett Lawrie is not going to play 2B. Enough.
I know its hyperbole dude. Im just tired of reading it.
I enjoy reading Tom as a blogger. He’s my fave out of all the Jays ones.
by outoforder87 on Aug 3, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
See side bar for definitions.
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Geez, how bad do people think Towers was?
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 3, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I understand the use of poor Towers as an example of inadequacy in starting pitching. But his bar isn’t so low that Jo-Jo Reyes couldn’t fit well underneath, and Villanueva really hasn’t had much success lately.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 4, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
This comes up all the time about re-naming the suckage awards, but honestly, how often do you see us refer to the awards as anything other then suckage?
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Towers is awful, thats why he has a suckage award after him
at least Jo-Jo still has a job
its just saying his performance tonight was worthy of a towers outing, not as a pitcher is he like Josh
Founding Member of the Ban Overused .GIFs Club
by Bowling_Guy25 on Aug 4, 2011 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Towers was bad (except for 2005), but he had a longer and better career than Jo-Jo.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 4, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure it's possible
OTOH, when Towers was 26, he went 8-1 with an xFIP of 4.01 and a K:BB ratio of 6 to 1. It’s entirely possible that Reyes will never have a season like that.
I’m fine with having a suckage award named after Towers. He was a Jay for several seasons, so he’s a memorable figure; and he was really, really bad for the last two. I just think it’s funny to say that Villanueva has been bad of late but not “Josh Towers bad”, when in fact his xFIP as a starter is very close to Towers’ career average and has been climbing every month.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 4, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
i can't believe we are looking up numbers on this guy just to say how bad he is
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by Bowling_Guy25 on Aug 4, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
that "season" was 62 IP
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by Bowling_Guy25 on Aug 4, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
64*
spamspamspam
Founding Member of the Ban Overused .GIFs Club
by Bowling_Guy25 on Aug 4, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I also can’t believe we’re looking this up. Sure it was only half a season, but It was 64 better innings than Reyes has ever pitched.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Aug 4, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You're exactly right
the award is named after Towers not simply because he was bad (as you say, lots of pitchers have been worse for the Jays!) but also because of how long he pitched in Toronto and the general feeling you got when he pitched (even as long as his nickname, Sparrow)
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
h/t Joanna from Hum and Chuck
he’s slight of build, and always seemed nervous
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
-.408 qualifies for a Super Suckage Jay award
Yes, I am addicted to the bbref play index. @BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 4, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
finish the season?
I dont think, after 20 earned runs in four starts at less than a 5 inning per average, we owe villaneuva a whole lot. Even Towers couldnt survive a stretch like that
What the heck Jays?
Only 5 hits? Hell, I’VE had 5 hits in 1 game.
2 doubles today against elite NL pitchers.
At the CoPa!!!! CoPacabana!!!
by CoreyPatterson16 on Aug 3, 2011 11:19 PM EDT reply actions
You also had a nice catch yesterday
Yes, I am addicted to the bbref play index. @BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 3, 2011 11:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I like his signature line though
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
Is there anyone against swapping Carlos V and Litsch?
Yes, I am addicted to the bbref play index. @BBBMinorLeaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Aug 3, 2011 11:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I like them both in the pen cause I don’t see either them start next year in the rotation and we might as well get them comfortable in the pen if they are gonna be used there next year.
by Matthew Mueller on Aug 4, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
how do you not swap litsch / carlos after tonight
a) carlos was doing way better out of the pen and is doing terrible of late
b) carlos’ innings need to be monitored anyways, at least if hes in the bp he won’t be pitching so many innings & hopefully can get back to being his valuable self in the bp as he was to start the year
c) litsch has looked great, 1hr in 4 innings was his only hit against, hes also been getting a lot more k’s then we’re used to seeing from him.
d) we don’t really have other options, drabek isn’t ready, you could call up whatchamacallit from AA, but why not give litsch another shot at it & see how it goes, give the youngster more time to work on that breaking ball in the minors & then maybe we see him a bit in september or not at all, wait for him next year to prove he can do it again & earn his opportunity
SSS, but...
based on what we’ve seen so far, does anyone else think Litsch could be a really good reliever if they choose to go that route with him? With the depth in pitching that the Jays have coming through the system right now, if he’s to have a future with the team, maybe it’s best as a reliever. As we all know, there are countless very successful relievers who were mediocre (at best) starters.
Having said that, though, I think CV needs to be pulled from the rotation – he’s clearly fatigued – and there aren’t many other options available besides Litsch. I’d say Walters, but not for a few weeks at least. Carreno maybe? Either way, I’d like to see what Litsch can do out of the pen over a couple of months, but I don’t think it’ll end up that way.
I actually like the idea of Litsch in the bullpen
It would allow him to add maybe 1-2 mph to his fastball. Might make him more effective, like Janssen.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
Glad I didn't watch.
On to the next one! If Cecil can shut down the Rangers twice in one week, he should be able to hold down the Rays. (and by saying this, I’ve probably jinxed it…)
4/5 in the rotation have been iffy this year. Not sure if we can depend on Drabek going into ’12.
by Nadia on Aug 4, 2011 1:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
That picture makes me giggle
Watch your hands JP
~K
"As the governor of Louisiana once said, the only way Chris Kelsay can lose his job is if he got caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy."
to be fair
i haven’t recognized anyone who said that, who has changed their minds (yet)
Founding Member of the Ban Overused .GIFs Club
by Bowling_Guy25 on Aug 4, 2011 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
John Farrell mentioned taking a look at Alvarez last night
Perhaps the Jays are thinking about calling him up soon for a few starts. Drabek also likely comes up again before the end of the season. Finally, McGowan’s rehab is going well and he has to be put in the rotation. I’m thinking we don’t see too many more Villanueva starts and barring injuries to the starters, we won’t see Litsch in the rotation either.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
I believe most people were arguing
that Villaneuva should stay in the rotation over Litsch until his arm starts to tire / the Jays decide he has pitched too many innings, and then either put him into the BP or shut him down. It just so happens that his arm was already starting to tire while that argument was being made, so I guess I can see how that can be construed as “funny”.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Aug 4, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
In a little more positive news...
Gose stole his 50th base lastnight while going 1-5, reaching on a single and error, Travis d’Arnaud went 2-4, and Adeiny Hechavarria went 1-5 with a double, Moises Sierra went 0-4, and Joel Carreno had a decent start.
Colby Rasmus is pretty good at baseball..
Better news
Drew Hutchison 6 IP, 1 BB, 8 K
Noah Syndergaard 5 IP, 1 BB, 6 K (first start in Vancouver)
I’ve said all along that Litsch deserves to be in the rotation, and now that Carlos has reverted to his pre-2011 self, there’s definitely a spot for him!
Those are some pretty nice lines!
I love our farm system, the future is so bright!
Colby Rasmus is pretty good at baseball..
man, Hutchison is just dominating
scary to think he’s been this good with only a couple years of experience on the mound
WAR... WAR never changes.
holy crap
at A this year he had a 1.96 FIP, and at AA (at age turning-21!) a 2.51 FIP. yum.
WAR... WAR never changes.
yanks and sox on pace to win 100 games
I thought the race for WC was supposed to be closer this year. crazy yankees
Founding Member of the Ban Overused .GIFs Club
Farrell is listening to Tom?
So we can blame Tom for everything that has gone wrong?…
37. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload.'
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