Wednesday Bantering: Links
Just some links to get us to game time:
- MLB Trade Rumors has their latest update on the Elias Rankings. Kelly Johnson is
still an Aa B. I wonder if he would accept arbitration? Jose Molina is a B, as is Jon Rauch. I'd likely accept arbitration if I was Rauch. - The 2012 MLB schedule is out, you can plan your trips. We start the year April
125 in Cleveland. Our first home stand starts on April 9th with the Red Sox. And we play at home on Canada Day! For interleague play, we host the Mets May 18-20 and then the Nationals and the Phillies starting June 11. We visit the Braves and Brewers. - Richard Griffin and Cathal Kelly argue about who is the AL MVP over in the Star. I agree with Cathal.
- The NY Times know the Jay exist, they wrote about us and the Orioles twice, here and here.
- The Southpaw looks at our Gulf Coast League team.
- Tao answers Twitter questions.
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Dammit Mr. Dakers
You beat my post about the 2012 Schedule :-(
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-11 (.450)
Yeah but you wrote more about it.
I could have also mentioned that ticket prices are staying the same next year.
I blog, therefore I am.
boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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by Bowling_Guy25 on Sep 14, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope they still have the Toronto Star Season Pass!
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-11 (.450)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 14, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
On a related topic
Francisco Cordero looks to be Type A. He’ll be 37 next year, and there’s a possibility that he won’t be offered arbitration. He might go for a 1-2 year contract. I know talking about signing closers on BBB is blasphemous, but not short term contracts that won’t cost us draft picks.
he's being paid 12 million dollars this year
I wouldn’t want him for half of that
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Why not?
ERA well below 2.50, hasn’t posted an ERA above 4 since 2000. WHIP under 1 this year, and that’s with a falling K rate.
You’re telling me you wouldn’t give a 1-2 year deal for that, without giving up a draft pick?
I wouldn't give any reliever a multiyear deal
and really, how much do you think he’ll cost? At least 7 million a year in my opinion, which is way too much.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Definitely no multiyear deal.
If Cordero came in at less than $4 million I’d ponder it perhaps, if the Jays need another RH reliever I guess.
by TheGP Baseball on Sep 15, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
you mean the cordero who's lost 1.5 MPH off his fastball from last year,
has basically lost the ability to strike batters out, and will be 37 next year?
I’d take him on a 1 year deal for under 4 million if we needed another righty reliever. but he’s really not any better than rauch/frasor/francisco/etc
not that we still have frasor
just using him as an example to show that cordero is just a solid-but-not-great reliever
Francisco should bounce back.
I think Frankie will carry his strong second half from this season into next year and return to his Texas form, which would really help out the ’pen next year…
by TheGP Baseball on Sep 15, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
we should offer FF arbitration
if he turns it down, we get a comp pick. if he accepts, we get a reasonably cost-effective and good reliever plus the chance for a pick in the future
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The Brewers!
I hope Marcum will be pitching for one of those games. It would be interesting to see Lawrie batting against him…
and also to see how Fielder does against his old team.
The man in the white shirt.
I wonder if we'll take a real run at Fielder.
I also wonder if Pujols will get less interest because folks are wondering about what his age really is.
I blog, therefore I am.
same for me
Which brings me to an interesting question . . . do you think the team is better off with him as Type A or Type B?
I’d say he’s more likely to accept arbitration if he’s Type A, with Type B he has more value on the free agent market. Obviously, he’s way more valuable if he declines arbitration as a Type A, but there is a chance he wouldn’t. On the other hand, him accepting arbitration wouldn’t be a bad thing, either.
If I were to answer the question, I’d say I’d rather have him as Type A because I don’t mind if he accepts. But, take someone like Jose Molina — Type A status would make him even less likely to accept arbitration, so we should actually prefer him to be Type B than Type A, I’d think. Seems kind of counter-intuitive, but that’s how it is.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
do you think the team is better off with him as Type A or Type B?
Type A. Kelly Johnson strikes me as the type of player that teams will gamble a 2nd round pick on (So any team that buys a higher ranked type A or a protected 1st rounder). Besides which, I would not consider having Kelly Johnson be our 2nd baseman to be an unfavorable outcome.
He was the lowest-scoring A up until this update and how he is the highest scoring B.
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-11 (.450)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 14, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't doubt that teams would take a gamble
but I do wonder whether he feels he would make more money from arbitration next season, then going for a multi year than he would from trying to get a multi yr deal right now. But, as I said, I agree with you
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
ok i wont?
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by Bowling_Guy25 on Sep 14, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
it should happen immediately
but it won’t till Selig is done, and it’s far from guaranteed even when he is
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There's not point having a balanced schedule ...
… and divisions. It’s one or the other.
by Defense Counts! on Sep 14, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Ricky Romero has been nominated for the Roberto Clemente Award
I really like this part:
Romero also volunteered to catch the ceremonial first pitch for every game he doesn’t start. It’s a role that’s normally tough to fill and usually reserved for guys at the end of the bench but Romero wanted to take part.
It’s an unusual step for an All-Star to make but one that takes special importance to the left-hander because it allows him the opportunity to meet a wide range of people. It’s the children that bring out the most joy in him, though.
“It’s fun for me, you never know who you’re going to meet,” Romero said. “Especially the little kids, you see the smile on their face, especially when they tell you, ‘I didn’t know you were coming out here to catch the first pitch.’ It’s always fun when you see that smile and it’s something you take with you.”
Also, you can vote for Ricky (or whomever you want, obviously) here.
The man in the white shirt.
Love the schedule
2 trips to Comiskey + 1 series in Miller Park? This Chicago resident couldn’t be happier.
The Marlins trip could be a good one with the new stadium being opened next year
"Richard Griffin and Cathal Kelly argue about who is the AL MVP over in the Star. I agree with Cathal."
While I agree that Verlander shouldn’t be MVP (he’s not even close to Bautista/Ellsbury in WAR), Cathal’s reasoning is absurdly flawed. Sure, starting pitchers only pitch in 1/5 of games, but they have much, much, much more of an impact on the game when they are playing. In particular, Verlander has been involved in 910 plate appearances so far this year. Bautista only has 594 PA, and Ellsbury 660.
So a more reasonable argument would be: how can position players be considered for MVP when they only have 2/3 as many PA as pitchers?
That said, in reality both of those arguments are ridiculous. WAR is perfectly designed to answer this question, as it compares position players to replacement level position players and pitchers to replacement level pitchers. Most years the player with the highest WAR is a hitter, but sometimes it is a pitcher. So, it is definitely possible for a pitcher to be the most valuable player in a given season.
WAR is a good way to answer the question
but it isn’t perfectly designed. And not only because it’s an imperfect statistic (how do you judge defence? how do you reward versatility? which WAR do you use?), but also because you shouldn’t necessarily be deciding on who is MVP based on how much better they are than a replacement player because a replacement-player wouldn’t necessarily be starting in place of him. I think it makes more sense to compare the MVP candidates to a higher level of competition than the theoretically worst major leaguer, maybe something like wins above average instead.
Also, and this is just something you brought up that I think is interesting, I know that you don’t actually think tallying up the number of plate appearances each player is involved in makes sense at all (by the way, don’t forget that Bautista has made 218 putouts and 11 assists as an outfielder and 17 putouts and 62 assists as a third baseman). You implied the reason there but didn’t actually state it and I think it bears mentioning because it is kind of an interesting concept.
Pitchers accrue value by making more outs than replacement-level pitchers and batters accrue value by getting on base more than replacement-level batters. However, since even replacement-level pitchers will record outs more than half the time, it is more difficult — on a per plate appearance basis — for pitchers to accrue equal value. It’s the same reason that it’s hard to accrue a lot of value in the field, even bad fielders will still make most of the plays.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

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