Blowing a 5 run lead is never fun: Jays lose to Yankees.
by Tom Dakers on Sep 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT
in Toronto Blue Jays Game Recaps
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PrintYankees 7 Jays 6
If you ever wondered what it would be like to have a game's worth of balls and strikes called by a magic eight ball, you got to see it there.
You really ought to win when you are up 6-1 after 5 but Henderson Alvarez had a rough 6th inning. A wild pitch, a hit batter, 4 hits including a 3 run homer for Alex Rodriguez. Other than that inning Henderson was great. I'm enjoying watching him, but then Carlos Villanueva had a few good starts for us too, so I'm not going to get over excited, just yet. But he should be in the mix for a spot in the starting rotation next year.
Speaking of Carlos, he got us our 22nd blown save of the season, giving up a two run homer to Curtis Granderon, in his inning of work. His first blown save of the year. It was pitch 12 of that at bat. Granderson had fouled off 7 straight pitches before that the one that went over the wall. Kyle Drabek pitched the 8th and 9, giving up just 1 walk, with 3 strikeouts. It would be nice to see him get a start, before the end of the season, to see if the good pitching, that he is doing for us out of the pen, could be stretched out for 6 or 7 innings
Our offense got 6 runs in 4 innings off Bartolo Colon but then couldn't get a hit off the Yankees bullpen in 5 innings. Mike McCoy had a 2 run double and drove in another run on a safety squeeze. Colby Rasmus was 2 for 4 with a double. Jose Molina went 1 for 2 with a double.
Jay of the Day is Drabek (.097 WPA). Carlos gets the suckage number at -.318.
Adam Loewen had a couple of misadventures in LF, dropping one very catchable fly and diving at and missing another fly by Brett Gardner, giving Brett a triple. Adam came out of the game, in the 8th, I'm not sure but would think that it was an injury of some sort. Jose Molina also left the game, an inning after taking a foul tip off his forearm.
Colby Rasmus made an amazing catch, going back on a ball all out, to save us two runs. The Yankees turned it into an unassisted double play when Robinson Cano passed Mark Teixeira on the base paths. Cano didn't figure the ball would be caught, rounded third, Teixeira went back to tag up. Ooops.
The plate umpire, CB Bucknor was terrible (equally terrible for both teams). He could not call a 0-2 pitch a strike no matter how perfect a pitch it was. And he called a strike for Mariano Rivera that was directly over the chalk on the batters box off the plate.
Tomorrow we have another afternoon game. Freddy Garcia (11-7, 3.71) goes against the Jays and Brandon Morrow (9-11, 5.23) who really looks like he could be given a skip the next time through the rotation.
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Haha
Someone’s playing Lux Aeterna on the piano above my floor
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Legendary!
Not changing my signature until Hechavarria is promoted to the big leagues.
[Funny phrase about how few followers I have on Twitter]
don't you mean Legen... wait for it...
screw it.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
That's cute.
Not changing my signature until Hechavarria is promoted to the big leagues.
[Funny phrase about how few followers I have on Twitter]
its called Lux Aeterna
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
i know but everyone calls it requiem for a dream
by jadedeed2327 on Sep 17, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
so everyone is wrong
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
by Pikachu on Sep 17, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Not changing my signature until Hechavarria is promoted to the big leagues.
[Funny phrase about how few followers I have on Twitter]
K's
Is anybody else getting tired of watching the Blue Jays batters strike out AB after AB? Now, I know that (i) in this particular game, Bucknor’s strike zone was completely random, and (ii) in the grand scheme of things, a K is no worse than any other out. But the Jays have too many regulars on their roster with terrible K:BB ratios: EriK Thames, Adam Kind, JP ArenKibia, Kolby Rasmus, not to speak of RaKai Davis and Travis SniKer. From the point of view of the Jays’ offense, this has to improve. But purely from the point of view of the enjoyment of watching games, I’m quite tired of watching “he swings and misses” over and over and over.
a) that wasn't funny
and b) who cares? you know strikeouts are the same as other outs… so why is this a big deal?
Total Internet points: 10 000
Well, I have several answers to this. The first is simply one of personal preference — yes, I want to see the Jays win, but given a choice, I would prefer that they win with hits rather than HRs, which I frankly find boring. Second, there is the question of future performance. In his minor-league reports, Woodman has suggested that if a hitter has a poor K:BB ratio, he is less likely to succeed at the higher levels since the pitchers will take advantage of this weakness. I don’t know if there is any study which supports this thinking, but it makes logical sense to me. And, given that the Jays hitters are young, in general, it seems to me that if they have a poor K:BB ratio, they are less likely to improve. Third, there was that recent study which showed that, in fact, K’s are somewhat worse than the other outs, given a poor K:BB ratio.
I don't exactly know what you want the Jays to do about it
the Jays have players who walk a bit, strike out a lot, and hit for a lot of power. You just say “I don’t want you guys to strike out” and just expect them to not strike out.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Last i looked the Jays were 4th in the league in scoring
Since getting runs is the point of offense, if they keep scoring I’m happy. Stopping a few runs would be ok too.
I blog, therefore I am.
by Tom Dakers on Sep 17, 2011 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly..
In terms of the whole season, we have definitely been good on the offensive side, although inconsistent at times and often plagued by injuries
It is our pitching, and to an extent our defense, that, as a whole, prevented us from really competing this year. Although, I will add that since we have replaced Jo Jo with Alverez, we have already improved in that area. Solid seasons by Morrow, Cecil and Alvarez, along with the continued stardom of Romero, will definiely make us a tough team to compete with next year
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
by dannyofbosnia on Sep 17, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an argument which is often made. Since the Blue Jays are doing so well as a team in terms of scoring, their offense must be okay. I don’t think this is the correct way to look at it. If you imagine a team filled with 4 Barry Bonds and 5 scrubs, they would also probably score very well. That doesn’t mean that the 5 scrubs could not be criticized.
Why have the Blue Jays scored so much? If you go position by position, you’ll see that the Jays are above average or OK at RF, SS, C, DH (and now 3B). But they are below average, maybe well below average, at 1B, 2B, LF, CF. Curiously enough, the players I criticized mostly played these latter 4 positions. I don’t think this is a coincidence.
by DavidLondon on Sep 17, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, let's see
EriK Thames
- Bad K/BB ratio, but still hitting better than league average player
Adam Kind
- Down season, possibly won’t be regular next year
JP ArenKibia
- K’s a lot. Still above league average bat at premium position. d’Arnaud coming up.
Kolby Rasmus
- Down season. Was ridiculous in 2010
RaKai Davis
- 4th OF
ravis SniKer
- He’s 23 people. And he still had an league average season at age 22 in 2010.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Basically
I have no idea what you want the Jays to do about this
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
With the exception of Davis, they are young players too that you can understand why they have plate discipline issues. Maybe not Lind but its not like he is striking out 30% of the time, I believe it’s around 20% which isn’t too bad.
by Sniderlover on Sep 18, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
but yeah you can’t do much about it. I think they’ll improve as they get better. They might still strike out a lot but it doesn’t mean they can’t be good hitters
by Sniderlover on Sep 18, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s 23 people.
HOLY CRAP! THAT’S TOO MANY!
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
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I KNOW RIGHT
THAT’S, LIKE, MORE THAN WHAT I HAVE
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Curiously enough, the players I criticized mostly played these latter 4 positions. I don’t think this is a coincidence.
I planted a tree the day my son was born. It has grown by a third. So has he. The tree must be causing my son’s growth.
—————
Anyway, let’s give this the teardown it’s begging for:
C: JP Arencibia: Rookie, average production for a catcher this year (his wRC+ is 95, average wRC+ for all C with with over 160 PA is 96 (which is skewed upwards by ~1 point by Victor Martinez having all of his plate appearances lumped in with the catchers))
2B: Remember that guy Aaron Hill? Remember that time he played 104 games for the Jays at 2B? Yeah, he struck out 12.4% of the time. You’ll note that his replacement has only appeared in 21 games thus far, which is about 14% of all games played this season, so he is barely responsible for the lack of production at the position. You will also note that he has improved the offensive output at the position by 5 batting runs so far (and by 24 on a prorated basis)
LF: Eric Thames: Rookie, average production for a LF (his wRC+ is 107, average wRC+ for LF with over 160 PA is 103)
CF: Rajai Davis: Struck out 18.6% of the time, which is 3% below the league average rate (21.6%) for batters with over 100 PA (so as to remove pitchers and short-term injury-related callups). 18.6% is also the same rate at which Lawrie strikes out, yet there seems to be no issue with Lawrie whiffing in nearly 1 of every 5 plate appearances.
Certainly some of the players you mentioned both have high K rates and are performing poorly, but I think I’ve illustrated pretty clearly that you cannot simply imply that a high K% leads to low production.
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
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I think I’ve illustrated pretty clearly that you cannot simply imply that a high K% leads to low production.
Absolutely. But the discussion seems to have changed to K%, when I originally talked about the K:BB ratio. (This is why I did not include Bautista and Lawrie, for example.) I don’t mind K’s when they come with BB’s. Still, as you say above, there are some players who do okay. I was aware that Arencibia is about average for C; I was not aware that Thames was as well for LF (I thought he was below average). BTW, what site do you use to get the wRC+ by position? That is very useful.
by BB:K ratio
the Jays are 15th in MLB and are pretty much exactly at the mean (Blue Jays are 0.44, mean is 0.4413).
also, by wRC+, Jays are 8th in MLB and, because offence is so skewed, well above the mean (Blue Jays are 102, mean is 96.2)
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Okay. But if we are trying to judge the offense of individual players, why are we looking at team stats? In the same vein, since Bautista is so far above average for BB:K and wRC+, it must mean that there are several other players on the team who are below average (Lind, etc.).
by DavidLondon on Sep 18, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
But I don't know why you're worrying about this
the players you have mentioned, such as Rajai Davis or even Adam Lind, probably won’t be getting regular playing time next season anyways. At least, I hope not.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
And the ones who will be
such as Colby Rasmus, or maybe KJ, are having down season, and are usually above average with the bat.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Silly question
How is the mean wRC+ not 100? Aren’t +stats meant to be scaled to 100?
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
jessef quoted team mean wRC+
Which is heavily skewed by the Sox and Yanks of the world
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by benk on Sep 18, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, I think what tends to happen
is that the bad offences (Twins, Mariners, etc.) tend to get fewer plate appearances.
Since getting “team mean” wRC+ does not account for this difference in number of plate appearances, the worst offences (who have fewer plate appearances, and thus affect the scaling of wRC+ less) are measured up against the better offences at the same scale.
However, even after accounting for this, I see only a very slight increase in mean wRC+ (increases to only 96.3).
I’m going to try and figure this out
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
doesn't seem like it's an issue of separating out by leagues either
I wonder if Fangraphs calculates “league average” offence based on multiple seasons of data. If so, the fact that offence is down this year relative to years past would affect this.
Might be something for someone to look into (not me)
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Fair enough
Re positional wRC+: I don’t actually know if that sort of breakdown is available to the general public (I assume not, since it doesn’t appear to be on b-ref or fangraphs), so I did as follows:
- Go to fangraphs stats page
- Select a position
- Change “Qualified Only” to “All”
- Pick a PA cut-off from the dropdown
- Press export to Excel
- In an empty column, type =[player’s wRC+] * [player’s PA] (obviously replacing what I wrote with the actual cell references, not just copied verbatim), and copy it down for the whole of players
- =SUM[new column (from 6)]
- =AVERAGE[all players’ PA]
- =[sum of new column(from #7)] / [average PA (from #8)]
This gives you the average wRC+ (or, really, any stat – just replace wRC+ with whatever you want and it’ll work perfectly – that’s what I did for the average K%) weighted properly by PA.
Come to think of it, after doing it the first time I probably should have just created a macro. Oh well.
For anyone reading this who isn’t great with Excel: This sounds much more complicated than it is only because I broke it down step by step. In reality, it takes less time to do than it took you to read the steps.
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
#6 should read
“… for the whole LIST of players”
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
You seem to be saying that the players are what they are, and there’s not anything that can be done about it. I don’t agree. People in their late teens go to high school; after that they go to university; after that they go to graduate school. The point is that in this age group, people can learn new things, if they are taught. It’s the same with baseball players. They can be taught to recognize pitches better, to walk more, etc. But it has to be in organizational thing. So far, I don’t see it.
BTW, it’s not an accident that the Red Sox are so good in OBP. When Epstein took over, he made an institutional change in the thinking, so that they emphasized plate discipline from the minors to the majors. Unless the Blue Jays do something similar, I don’t see them contending.
by DavidLondon on Sep 17, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The Red Sox are so good in OBP
they are also so good in SLG. And hitting.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Right, it's because of their emphasis on plate discipline in the minors
They must have drafted Kevin Youkilis for his good looks and then taught him how to walk. And, to think, all this time, I thought it was the other way around!
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
#2 is faulty reasoning
Bad K:BB ratios in the minors are bad because it is logical to assume that they will get worse as the player moves up. Middling K:BB ratios in the majors are precisely what they are: Middling K:BB ratios in the majors. Every player you listed has proven they can be successful as a major leaguer despite the apparent strikeout issues. If anything, what you’ve said argues against your premise: Players in the majors tend to improve their discipline with time and experience, so the fact that they are young and in the majors would suggest that 1) they will improve and 2) if they do manage to make meaningful improvements in their plate discipline, their ceilings are higher than those of players who get by with intelligence and honed skills rather than with raw talent.
tl;dr your reasoning makes no sense because there is no higher league for those players to move up to.
Regarding #3: The study showed a near-negligible difference in value. We mentioned it a month or so ago because the other person was stating unequivocally that Ks are no different from other outs (and somehow lead to players hitting more home runs), which is technically untrue. Also, the study also showed that it only really becomes an issue when the K rate reaches about 25%. Also, the primary issue with a high K% is that the player becomes prone to greater swings in production as BABIP plays a larger role in their output. Simply going “Oh noes! High K rate!” doesn’t really tell you anything unless you look at their career (or recent weight average or whatever) BABIP. Obviously fewer Ks is better, but that’s not realistic for all players.
While we’re at it, Rajai Davis strikes out less than Brett Lawrie, and only 1.5% more often than Jose Bautista
Also, yeah, just adding the letter K in the middle of names where no K or C exists doesn’t make sense.
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
*weighted average
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
Jays aren’t as bad as you make it sound. They are bottom 10 in K’s and they are 13th in BB%.
These are also young players so it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Guys like Snider, JPA, Thames may always strike out a lot but it doesn’t mean you can’t be a productive hitter. Granderson for example is 21th worst in K’s. Stanton is 13th worst. Howard has a 27.4 career K%. Jim Thome has a career 24.6%
Those are also young players who are power hitters so it shouldn’t come as a surprise they are striking out a lot but there is room for improvement (excluding Davis and Lind of course).
The umps are members of the Yankees
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
because true fans want their own team to win, above all else
Secondly, almost all fans of baseball want the Yankees to lose. Simple as that.
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
by dannyofbosnia on Sep 17, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
TEH TROLL IS BACK
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Yeah I realized that after I commented, otherwise I wouldn't have indulged him
“Never feed a troll”
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
by dannyofbosnia on Sep 17, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
no
you’re a subjective poster
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
Well, the words are total opposites
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
same diff
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 17, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't doubt that
but just think about what you’re writing before you comment, mmkay?
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
why is that, yes i will try to be sensitive in what i say to you jays fans since im a a yankees fan
by jadedeed2327 on Sep 17, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
"how come you guys cared about a meaningless game for you"
Sensitive?
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
well if that isn't sensitive, than I don't know what is
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
by dannyofbosnia on Sep 17, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously? This is stunningly inane.
Apparently the fact that we, the fans, care about the outcome of the game impacts the Jays’ ability to win.
Woe be those poor, hard done by Yankees! Those mean, nasty, no good Blue Jays refusing to simply forfeit the game and defer to their overlords! We, the fans of Blue Jay, submit tribute of JoJo Reyes to the mighty Yankees so They might, in Their infinite wisdom and mercy, spare us and allow us to continue to shuffle through this mortal coil! Praise to the Yankees, who deign permit us underlings to continue to exist in the AL East!
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
by Gerse on Sep 17, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Perhaps a bit over the top but I enjoyed it and agree whole heartedly
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel."
by dannyofbosnia on Sep 17, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
They won by building the farm system, then spending a fair chunk of dough.
Oh, and getting Robbie Alomar and Joe Carter.
by Defense Counts! on Sep 17, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The Jays started playing quite well in the mid-80s by building a solid organization. Then in the very early 90s (1990, 1991), management saw that the team was very close to going all the way (they made the playoffs in 1989, 1991-1993) so they made some trades and signed free agents to put them over the top. Back in 1992 and 1993, the Jays had the highest payroll in MLB (~$43 million). Ownership (Labatt’s) was very supportive back then.
I think something similar is going on now (at least I hope). The team is building a solid franchise and I am sure they will go out and splurge when the time is right. The Jays’ current owner (Rogers) is both supportive and filthy rich.
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 17, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Another part was that
The team had the best pipeline in Latin America back then.
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
I love it when I am not the only one who knows who he is.
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 17, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
From Mop Up Duty
http://mopupduty.com/index.php/dominican-baseball/
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 17, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Epy Guerrero!
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
by Minor Leaguer on Sep 17, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Woooooooooooo, another championship!!
Dave Gershman
Fisher Cats win! EL champs!
Total Internet Points: 185000 (Thank you to JMac for making me a winner in a bet)
New Official Internet Points Bank Owner (Unlike Kirby the scam)
Congrats on a tremendous season Fisher Cats.
Sierra came through in the clutch as he singled in Gose in a 9th inning tie game.
RICHMOND NEEDS A NEW CLOSER!!1!
TRADE HECTOR CORREA FOR A BAG OF BASEBALLS
"The AL Beast" was an intelligent pun the first time it was used. That time was not at any point in the last 5 years. JUST STOP.
2012/Offseason-related FanPost tally since September 1: 7
Congrats to the Fisher Cats!
Jays system is best system!
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Jays' lack of a reliable closer is Gord Ash's fault
New York was willing to send Mariano Rivera to Seattle for Randy Johnson, but then-GM Woody Woodpecking Woodward was interested in the Jays Pat Hentgen. The Jays countered with Juan Guzman (haha) and Shawn Green, but Seattle wanted Jose Cruz, Jr. back if they couldn’t get Hentgen.
Ash could’ve traded Guzman/Cruz or Hentgen for Johnson then swapped him to the Yankees for Rivera then the Jays could have kept on re-signing him and this year we wouldn’t have so many blown saves.
Anyway, kinda interesting article here (hat tip: Lookout Landing).
Follow me @BBBMinorLeaguer | 2011 Jays record while in attendance: 9-12 (.429)
Forget the closer
I want Randy Johnson!
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Drabek
It’s too early to tell if he’s actually good in the bullpen. By looking at the PAs Drabek pitched in Gameday, it seems he was helped a lot by Yankees swinging at pitches way out of the zone. He didn’t really throw strikes.
It would help if he got a start or two
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
it's true
because good pitchers never induce swings at pitches outside the zone!
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
cmon
he’s not saying that.
Sad, Drunk, And Poorly
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - JL
they were pretty much all on his curveball so it shouldn’t come as a surprise. His curveball is nasty. He threw some quality fastballs away that Yankees couldn’t hit and even had a couple of swings and misses I think.
It’s a small sample size to say whether or not he’s improved. If they could give him a start or two before the season’’s end would give us a better look.
by Sniderlover on Sep 18, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
How about giving him one or two of Morrow's remaining starts?
Depending on how things go today. If Morrow has a disastrous start, I’d shut him down and give Drabek the rest of his remaining starts.
The man in the white shirt.
Yup, I agree or just go with a 6-man rotation to end the season.
by Sniderlover on Sep 18, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
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