Today in Bluebird Banter History: Troy Glaus Traded for Scott Rolen
by Tom Dakers on Jan 12, 2012 3:23 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays History
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PrintFour years ago today, in the middle of what had been very slow January for Blue Jay news (I can relate), the Jays traded Troy Glaus to the Cardinals for Scott Rolen. As Hugo said, in his post on the trade, it was two teams each trading off a player that didn't want to be with them anymore.
Glaus was having foot troubles (plantar fasciitis), which, he felt, were made worse by playing on the carpet covered concrete at Rogers Centre. Troy had a lot of power, he hit 58 home runs in his 2 seasons with the Jays (even though he had only played 115 games in 2007).
Rolen had been having problems of his own, he had missed 196 games over the previous 4 years with the Cardinals. He had a rocky relationship with manager Tony La Russa (sort of like Colby Rasmus). Scott hit just .265/.331/.398, with 8 home runs, in 2008, the season before the trade.
Glaus had a pretty good 2008 season with the Cards, hitting .270/.372/.483 with 27 home runs and 99 RBI in 151 games, but he played only 14 games in 2009 due to a number of injuries. He signed with the Braves, as a free agent, before the 2010 season and had a bit of a bounce back year, hitting .240/.344/.400 with 16 homers in 128 games, but that was the end of his career.
Rolen missed 47 games in 2008, starting the season on the DL. When he did play he hit .262/.349/.431 with 11 homers and 50 RBI, and played great defense. I don't think anyone would argue too much if I said he was the best defensive third baseman we've ever had. He also quickly became a fan favorite. He played 88 games for the Jays, hitting .320/.370/.476, before he was traded to the Reds for Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke and Zack Stewart.
At the time, the trade seemed like a pretty good one, especially considering that Rolen had wanted to get out of Toronto. Unfortunately, Roenicke didn't turn out to be of any value. Stewart though turned into a major piece of a complicated pair of trades that netted us Colby Rasmus (and a couple of guys that were soon released). And Edwin...well, Edwin has given us something to argue about.
In the 3 seasons since the trade, Rolen has played 238 games for the Reds hitting .270/.337/.452, with 28 home runs and 143 RBI. Edwin has played 272 games, .257/.320/.461, with 46 home runs and 129 RBI. Of course, Rolen's defense has been massively better than Encarnacion's.
Anyway I'm digressing a miles from the topic. I think it is clear that the Jays had the better part of the Rolen/Glaus trade, not so much because Rolen was that much better for the Jays than Glaus was for the Cards, but because we could trade Rolen for parts that will continue to help us into the future. Good job, JP.
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"I don't think anyone would argue too much if I said he was the best third baseman we've ever had"
not for long!
NewGBoaT?
I think you'll find I'm universally recognised as a mature and responsible adult.
Twitter is the thing with all the tweets...
Hmm
Kelly Gruber’s 1988 season has some pretty crazy defensive numbers:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1005107&position=3B#fielding
As much as I enjoyed watching Rolen play.
I still think this was a bad trade, as it resulted in getting Edwin.
I am not a very big fan of his.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
It also allowed us to get Zach Stewart
Who was part of the package to get Edwin Jackson, who was part of the package to get Rasmus.
That said, I would have bet a lot of money at the time of the trade against Edwin Encarnacion being a member of the 2012 Jays.
I'm starting to get really excited about Rasmus.
I don’t think we talk about him enough, Jays are sitting on the biggest lottery ticket in baseball I think..bigger than Darvish even. If Colby breaks out next year and improves on his 2010 season, he’s going to be insanely good.
Did Rolen not request a trade
To be closer to home or something? That also has to be considered (assuming its true, maybe I remember wrong). Encarnacion is an above replacement player and he hasn’t taken away PAs from any prospects, so I don’t really care that he’s on the team. The real determinant of who “won” will be how good Rasmus is imo.
umm he is fully admitting to
just not liking the trade because he doesn’t like EE
No need to analyze that lol, won’t change his mind (or mine)
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Jan 12, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
just weird that its a reply to craig thats all
if it was meant to be stand alone maybe it should have been so!! =P
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Jan 12, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
By WAR
Rolen/Glaus
Rolen as a Jay: 6.2 WAR (in a season and 2/3)
Glaus as a Cardinal: 5.0 WAR
Rolen/EE
Rolen as a Red: 6.0 WAR (prior to contract extension; 1 1/3 seasons)
EE as a Jay: 1.8 WAR (prior to re-signing)
Zach Stewart: 0.2 WAR
Roenicke: 0 WAR
We definitely won the first trade, and I would say, despite the value of Stewart in the White Sox trade, lost the second. But Roenicke and Stewart were both decent prospects at the time, and neither progressed significantly. Stewart might have kept his value roughly even between the two trades.
Also have to consider the costs
Can’t just consider WAR without the cost…actually, this would be interesting to look further into. Maybe later once I’ve finished the research I’m working on currently.
Agree with both of you,
This was very quick and dirty. I think the Jays got a little salary relief in the second trade, but I think the first was pretty even.
It would be interesting to try and attribute some part of Rasmus to Stewart. Let’s see: Stewart & Frasor for Edwin Jackson and Teahen. Teahen was a salary dump, about $7m iirc, so let’s say Teahen 40%, Stewart 40%, Frasor 20%. Then Jackson and Rzep & Patterson & Dotel for Miller, Tallet, PJ whoever and Rasmus. I’ll attribute 50% to Jackson, 30% to Rzep, 10% to Dotel, and 10% to Patterson and dumping Miller and Tallet. By those numbers, Stewart would be 20% responsible for the return on Rasmus.
Watch AA just keep trading players acquired from the trades orginating from Rolen/Glaus
and we’ll never be able to fully evaluate who got the better end of the trade
has it been too long?
Can I still say I miss Rolen??? Because I do…..my daughter used to call him my hunksicle and then get mad at me because I wasn’t allowed to have a hunksicle seeing as I’m married….
If you can't convince them, confuse them!
by Carm on Jan 12, 2012 6:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
lawrie will make us forget about him
i hope
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Jan 12, 2012 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Sift through the pile of turds
and you will find some real nuggets of goodness from JP’s tenure. He made some solid trades but his free agent signings were far from stellar.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Jan 12, 2012 6:15 PM EST via Android app reply actions
JP is not a poor GM by any reasonable standad
In fact I think there are many MLB teams who would be very wise to can their current management and hire Ricciardi (Jays not included of course, love AA).
Ricciardi had some absolutely terrible luck with injuries during his tenure with the Jays. Having all three of his young starters blow their arms put (Marcum, McGowan and Litsch along with his high-priced ace closer) in the same season was just absurd. The equivalent for 2012 would be all of Alvarez, Cecil and Morrow blowing their arms out next season. How can a GM plan for this?
Where JP really was his own worst enemy was in the draft for his first 5 seasons, utterly ignoring high school talent for the cheaper-to-scout college talent. However I think his last three drafts show that he learned from his early mistakes and is unlikely to repeat them. I also think he likely learned from the Frank Thomas contract about being wary of very old FA’s. I certainly think there is a bit of an advantage hiring a GM who’s already made his ‘rookie mistakes’, assuming of course the GM showed an aptitude for evaluating talent.
Bingo
Where JP really was his own worst enemy was in the draft for his first 5 seasons, utterly ignoring high school talent for the cheaper-to-scout college talent.
This was his biggest failing, and meant that the homegrown core was ot sufficiently strong when he was ready to spend to try to compete.
OMG
Lets see he also
1) Badly neglected signing any International players or had any real scouting presence in Latin America.
2) Had real problems signing draft picks ie 2009.
3) Whined and blamed everyone else for his lack of success.
4) Showed a real lack of class in how he handled both Delgado and Halladay.
5) In 8 years he never brought the Jays even close to the playoffs.
6) Never developed any elite players from the farm system.
7)Wells and Rios contracts.
8) Had a basic problem with honesty and embarrassed the entire organization. see his comments and alleged call to Adam Dunn
Just the thought of him makes me feel a little dirty lol. AA is a huge improvement and I wouldn’t wish JP on anyone (other then the Yankees).
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