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Why the Blue Jays will be very good - a more systematic analysis

OK, I wrote about this earlier, and thank you for all of the comments. I think I can be a bit more systematic. Looking at team fWAR for 2011, most playoff teams had something approaching or beyond 50 fWAR, usually with over 30 fWar from batters, and around 20 fWAR from pitching. (The Phillies had the lowest batting WAR of any playoff team, at 24.1, but they more than made up for this with over a 27 WAR from pitching)

So, the Jays in 2011 had a 21.3 batting WAR and a 12.5 pitching WAR. Can they improve enough to approach playoff level (around 50 WAR total)? I think they can get close, and here's why. (EDIT - thanks to some comments below, there are some flaws to my methodology. But, I think this analysis still points to the fact that even average-level performances from some positions could result in a large improvement, over all)

Star-divide

OK, feel free to criticize my methodology, but here we go with a position-by-position break-down.

In 2011, the Jays received the following fWAR, position-by-position, assuming that fangraphs breaks down plate appearances correctly. Remember, usually a 2 WAR is considered an average MLB player, while 0 WAR, of course, is a replacement-level player. I'll list the position, 2011 WAR, and then what we might expect for 2012. Batters first.

C = 2.8 [2012 = 2.8. call it even. Arencibia will hopefully improve, but there's no way we'll repeat Molina's back-up performance)

1B = 0.3 (ouch) [2012 = 1.5. This, hopefully, is a conservative estimate. Some improvement, but still below average]

2B = 0.5 [2012 = 4.0. Why not? KJ was on pace for around this in his short stint with the Jays]

SS = 5.2 [2012 = 5.2. Most seem to think Escobar can do even better than last year. But, to be conservative, will give ourselves the same production]

3B = 4.9 [2012 = 4.5. How will Lawrie do? Certainly he's not going to be worth 9 WAR, but maybe 4.5?]

RF = 9.0 [2012 = 6.5. Regression, but still quite good]

CF = 0.9 [2012 = 3.0. Experts expect Rasmus to be above average]

LF = 1.4 [2012 = 2.5. Roughly Thames' pace translated over a full season. Hopefully a combination of Thames and Snider can put this together]

DH = 1.2 [2012 = 2.0. A conservative estimate. A full year of Encarnacion at the position could be quite good]

So, what does that leave us with? 27.5 fWAR - close to a playoff level offense. Still, to really reach the elite we would need 22.5 fWAR from our pitching in 2012, after only receiving 12.5 fWAR last season. Can we do it?

SP 2011 = 9.9 fWAR

RP 2011 = 2.6 fWAR

If we assume a rotation of Romero, Morrow, Alvarez, Cecil and McGowan, last year's WAR numbers look like: 2.9, 3.4, 1.0, 0.4, and 0.0 (the last in a very small sample size). What can we predict? So difficult to predict with injuries and so on. But just looking at these 5:

Romero. Let's give him a 2.7 fWAR for 2012, a slight regression (he was well above 2.9 in 2010, so I think 2.7 is a realistic expectation. Of course, he could do even much better)

Morrow. Improvement to a 4.0.

Alvarez. Over the course of a full season, he was worth about 3.0. Hopefully he can repeat it.

Cecil. Bounceback to his 2012 form of 2.6 WAR

McGowan. Let's give ourselves 1.5 WAR from the 5th pitcher spot.

So, if I've calculated correctly, this would give us about 13.6 fWAR from our starters. From our relievers, of course, we only received 2.6 fWAR last year. Santos himself was worth about 1.6 fWAR last year, while Darren Oliver was 1.3 fWAR. So, I think we can expect improvement from our bullpen. Is 5 WAR realistic? I don't know.

So, that would give us 27.5 WAR from batting, 13.6 WAR from SP, and 5 WR from relievers, for a total of 46.1. This isn't yet in the 50-60 range of some of the top playoff teams, but it is exactly the same total as the Tampa Bay Rays had last year.

So, does the more systematic approach work? What do you think? What are the flaws, here?

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I'm wondering

how did you add up the calculations for positions? Cause I think I see some double counting.

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

yeah, definitely double counting.

You shouldn’t use fWAR if you’re going to do it position-by-position. FG doesn’t classify that way.

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

There’s no way we got 4.9 from 3B and 9 from RF, considering Lawrie and Baustista put up 11 combined in those positions and other than them the rest were pretty much replacement level.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, that's good to know...

Hmmm… yes, I see there’s some double-counting. But how does FG calculate position-by-position WAR? It is possible to sort by position on the website, rather than player.

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

(And, of course, the same for other positions… I wonder how to eliminate double counting)

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Just don't do position by position

it’s not necessary

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I you're right. On a case by case basis

FG just doesn’t work this way. Still, maybe a case can be made that we can see regression at some of these positions, but enough improvement in others so that we could be much better than last year.

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

well

just do player-by-player analysis… I don’t get the need for doing it based on positions.

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

my wording

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

almost all of these predictions

are massively optimistic. not that you’re saying every player is going to be a 5 win guy, just that a lot of these players really aren’t going to improve or bounceback in the way you think they will (Cecil? Morrow?)

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

As a fan, I was trying to balance optimism with realism, so...

Some regression from players like Romero, Bautista and Lawrie, but decent improvements from some other players.

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yunel's 50th percentile projection

is not 5 WAR, Lawrie’s is not 4.5 WAR, Rasmus is not 3 (might be close though), Edwin is not a 2 win DH, Cecil’s 50th percentile is not his 2010 season, McGowan cannot really be fairly projected at 1.5 wins

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Still, to call them "massively optimistic"

given past performance, seems a bit of an exaggeration, doesn’t it? I mean, Escobar’s done it before, and he’s quite young. Lawrie was doing much, much better than that in a very small sample size. Cecil, perhaps, is massively optimistic (although he has done it before).

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think on aggregate it's pretty massively optimistic

though the individual players might not be too far off.

and I hope I didn’t come across as rude, you obviously put some thought and work into this. I just take some issue with the general results, that’s all.

just another thing: Romero was kind of hurt by DIPS in 2011 due to his low BABIP hurting his K numbers… I’d actually expect him to be a little better by fWAR (3.5 to 4 fWAR) but worse by rWAR

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think 3.5 is crazy

beat it in 2010, was only .6 off in rookie season, was hurt by low BABIP and HR byproducts in 2011, and he’s in his prime

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

but higher run environment in 2009

and what are you assuming as his 50th pct IP? 200?

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 27, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess

maybe 185 makes more sense

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, fair enough

a LOT would have to go right for something like this to happen. I guess my overall point, though, is that the Jays don’t have nearly as many holes as they did last year, and so even though we haven’t made major improvements, just replacing awful performances with half-decent ones could go a long way towards winning a few more games.

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

oh certainly

I think we’re quite a bit better than we were going into 2011. but your results point to roughly 90 win team based on 2011 Pythagorean… I don’t think we’re particularly close to that. it’s definitely within the realm of possibility, but I think our true talent is much closer to the 83-86 range

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I believe our team, as constructed, could win 90 games, even with some regression from Bautista and Romero. But, quite a few players would need to return to past performances or at least improve, somewhat, and there are always freak injuries and surprise down years. So, I also think that 83-86 wins is much more realistic.
I guess, as a fan what I’m trying to say is that there are reasons to be optimistic about this team; that is in fact better constructed than a lot of the main-stream media credits.

by bellw on Jan 27, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this

Sure, individually, the players have done it before. But in aggregate, way too optimisitic as a point (50th percentile) projection. You can’t say each player has done it before, so that’s what we expect for 2012.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, WAR is a counting stat

So if your starters put up good numbers (that is, they eat a lot of innings), your relievers aren’t going to get as many innings to earn WAR.

by siggian on Jan 27, 2012 2:45 PM EST reply actions  

maybe

but the improvement can come (mostly) from better play too

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been tinkering in Excel

Taking the ZiPS projections and doing some stochastic simulations, which I think is a more useful way to think about this. The thing is, I need to account for injuries and playing time, and that meaning building distributions for each player, which seems difficult to easily do wihtout just making it up.

I might turn more seriously to this once I finish the free agent value reasearch I’m doing.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 3:02 PM EST reply actions  

Hour or two at a time

That’s why it’s taking so long

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, lol

Right now I’m a (bored) student

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Right

We all know that MjwW and Pikachu are really the Jeckel/Hyde side of AA. I’ll let you decide which is which, but clearly they are one and the same person.

What a beautiful mind…

by FanInJapan on Jan 29, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Time to rev up those Monte Carlo simulations!

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Jan 27, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

it's a lot of fun to try to predict

There are always a few surprises though. Basically, for the Jays to win this year, we need a few pleasant surprises, and minimal disappointments (i.e. injuries or down years). Basically, we have to hope that things break the right way.

What’s going to be the biggest surprise? Is Snider or EE gonna hit 35 HR’s? Alvarez pitch like an ace? Are going to see any disapointments? Escobar hitting like he did with the Braves in 2010? Are Lawrie, Bautista or Romero going to struggle?

by REMO on Jan 27, 2012 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

Things never break for us, so we're due...

after 19 seasons hovering around .500, we’ve certainly had a lot of things not work out for us over the last couple of decades. Years when our offense crushed opposing pitchers but our pitching crumbled. Years when our pitching was great but our bats suddenly fell off the face of the earth. If Chris Carpenter actually puts it all together in his many years with us and avoids the injury bug, that would have been tremendous. But no, it isn’t to be, he goes to the Cards for nothing and wins a cy young’s and a WS. Can you imagine having had Doc and a dominant Carpenter 1-2? Devastating injuries have derailed many seasons as in the AL East, there is no room for error and injuries spell doom. I can only hope that bellw’s extreme optimism will come to fruition this year and everything will click because its been an unlucky 18 years and things have to go our way one of these years. He’s basically put up the blue print of what needs to happen for us to be playing in October. All we can do his hold high, delusional hopes in the spring and try not to cry too hard in August.

by Sean Coleman on Jan 27, 2012 9:02 PM EST reply actions  

good work

but 2.0 fWAR is actually slightly below average production — I ran the numbers several months ago ( http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2011/10/4/2468426/hate-and-war-the-only-things-we-got-today-does-replacement-level )

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Jan 28, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

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