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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Jays listed:

45. Travis d'Arnaud (Down from 41 last year)
62. Drew Hutchison (Up from NR)
74. Noah Syndergaard (Up from NR)
77. Anthony Gose (Up from 97 last year)
97. Adeiny Hechavarria (Down from 52 last year)
100. Jake Marisnick (Up from NR)

Bonus: 93. Nestor Molina

4 months ago Hal2_tiny Frag 25 comments 1 recs  | 

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And this is what happens

When you weight statistical production too heavily. You get guys like Hutchison and Erlin way too high. You get Montero at 4, because you slot him in as a catcher and the bat is massive there. You get ManBan at 9, abd Teheran down at 21.

On the other hand, you have some weird placements that could only be based on scouting reports. But any process that puts Hechavarria above Marisnick at this point is highly questionable. I’ve listened to some of their podcasts in the past, some interestng content, but I wouldn’t put a lot of weight into the Top 100

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

That is something

I have no idea about

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Jan 27, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying all of the evaluation is statistical

I’m saying that some of the placements clearly are – eg, Hutchison, Erlin…these are guys with excellent K/BB numbers, but #3/4 ceilings

I have no idea why TDA was downgraded. To their credit, they had him quite high last year, higher than anyone else I’ve seen I believe. I’m guessing it’s probably because they had him so high last year, and slotted in some new draftees in front of him, which accounts for the small movement downgrade. In other words, they went from being really high on him last year vs. consensus to more in line now

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Around there

My point was, last year he didn’t make many, if any top 100s. THey had him at 41, so that’s 60 spots difference, minimum. Even if he’s 25th, that’s only a 20 spot delta, much smaller. And the difference isn;t in their ranking, it’s in consensus changing big time.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess

still a highly weird ranking

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree

It’s different than consensus, but it’s still a good ranking and I can understand it. D’Arnaud has had injury problems which could recur. There are some questions about his defense, or at least the polish (Sickels said this prevented him from slapping an A- on him). There are some questions about the walk rate. 45 is still consistent with a Sickels B+ ranking, I’m guessing Sickels has him closer to 30-35 as a near borderline A- candidate. Fair weirder is putting Marisnick at 100, for example. That one I don’t really understand.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

my previous comment referred to the whole rankings, not just TdA, but I can see how it wasn’t clear

by benk on Jan 27, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah

Well I agree with that, broadly.

by MjwW on Jan 27, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah but the thing is

he was ranked 45 going in 2011, coming off of a pretty mediocre/bad season. I’m having trouble understanding why he fell 4 spots.

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 29, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not saying I agree with it one way or the other

but he could both drop spots in the list and still have improved as a prospect. This would be especially true if the evaluators had ranked him high last year because of his offensive capabilities, but lower because of his possible drawbacks (defense, injury concerns, and walk rate).

by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 29, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Stats

This list is probably the most scouting-heavy list we’ve ever published.

Numbers were used to filter through some of the lesser known minor leaguers and decided who should be considered. Scouting was used, in large, over numbers to determine who made the list and where they ranked.

AdamWFoster on Twitter
Projectprospect.com Founder

by Adam Foster on Jan 29, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay

can you give a reason why d’Arnaud fell 4 spots?

His 2011 wRC+ is 26

by Pikachu on Jan 29, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

STOP FOLLOWING ME!!1

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Jan 29, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Couple of things

1. Who?
2. Disregard the first point as they have D’Arnaud going down in ranking. I’m a homer but he went from high A with a low average and back problems to AA EL MVP. No way he should be moving down.

by T_Mizz on Jan 27, 2012 2:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Re:

1. Project Prospect is a scouting and statistical analysis baseball publication focused on evaluating prospective big leaguers.

We pride ourselves on providing high-quality, first-hand analysis. Our staff travels thousands of miles every year to see hundreds of baseball prospects with our own eyes. We also love numbers and have put a lot of energy into exploring and understanfing the intricacies of statistical analysis. Combining our scouting knowledge with our statistical knowledge, we believe our work offers a one-of-a-kind look at elite amateurs, minor league talents and young big leaguers.

I’ve been published by MiLB.com, Baseball America, ESPN, Rotoworld and more.

2. As previously mentioned, we had him pretty high last year at 41st. BA had him 36th and Law had him 57th. Goldstein and Pilierre didn’t rank him in their top 100s.

He’s an upper-body swinger with little lower-half involvement. That’s the primary reason why his strikeout rate jumped by about 8% from Low-A to High-A/Double-A. Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIBVDAlzkA

Watch the swing at the 11 second mark. Note how upright he is and how little he used his lower body. He starts from a pretty wide base, which gives him room to adjust to breaking balls that he identifies. But the better off-speed stuff he sees, the more trouble he’s going to have making contact. Note that he does hit a no-doubt home run later in the video. He has power and he is going to hit a good number of balls out in the big leagues.

D’Arnaud’s also an aggressive hitter. He could end up being a low-walk, high-strikeout catcher with above-average power for the position but below-average at the plate overall.

AdamWFoster on Twitter
Projectprospect.com Founder

by Adam Foster on Jan 29, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

Do you have a young, talented cost controlled player having a down year who's "attitude" has cased problems with an aging player or manager?

Don't worry, I Alex Anthopoulos will take him off your hands, I'll even give you some moderately useful veterans that will "help you make a playoff run".

I tweet sometimes

by jaysfan100 on Jan 27, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Lawrie

My hesitations with Lawrie were largely about his defense. And I wanted to see more power before I got too excited. I was focused on his aggressive approach and a frame that was already pretty muscular, and didn’t see him taking a big jump forward with his power.

Lawrie has changed the way I scout. I’ve discussed him with over a dozen scouts since. Some admitted to writing off Chase Utley in large in college because they didn’t think he would provide much defensive value or hit for a lot of power.

I feel fortunate to be in a position where I can document opinions that are seen by many and learn from them. Most people will never interact with an amateur scout who didn’t write up a big leaguer from their area who they saw multiple times — Brandon Belt was missed by a lot of people. And we’re finally getting to the point where enough media members with a good amount of experience are throwing together top 100s that can be compared to each other.

I’ve been scouting prospects and ranking them for over five years now. I’ve been fortunate enough to have a fair amount of scouts and front office members reach out to me over the years and speed up my learning process. I’ve also gone from almost entirely numbers-oriented to pretty balanced between numbers and scouting, as I’ve taken in hundreds of games at this point.

I’ll be tracking Lawrie’s progress closely and continuing to try to learn from talented big leaguers that I saw and was wrong about.

AdamWFoster on Twitter
Projectprospect.com Founder

by Adam Foster on Jan 29, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

This looks familiar.

=P

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr

Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.

by Frag on Jan 29, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

lolwut? The Jays rankings on the list flaw out blows.

by Sniderlover on Jan 27, 2012 7:48 PM EST reply actions  

Well at least Noah is getting some lovin

How did D’Arnaud go down? He had a poor 2010 and an exceptional 2011.

by Mike Andrew on Jan 27, 2012 9:57 PM EST reply actions  

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