Interview with Blue Jays Pitching Coach Bruce Walton: Part Five
The final part of our interview with Bruce Walton.
Thanks so much to Bruce for doing this for us.
So the starting rotations is Romero, Cecil, Morrow, Alvarez and McGowan?
That's about what we have right now, I think we have other people in the mix, McGuire, Jenkins, Huchison, Lafferty. You have other guys there that are in the mix but I think that's the top 5. Pretty simple.
Drabek would have to have a good spring?
Yeah he'd have to have a good spring but Kyle if he, Kyle has a chance to make the team. I mean anyone that starts 10-12 games last year for the big league club has a chance to start this year. We need Kyle, Kyle is a big part of our organization. We need Kyle to get there. To find out who Kyle is and get there fast.
Sergio Santos, what do you think he'll do this year?
Oh he'll be great. He's familiar with our organization. He knows everyone here. He's a good kid. A big strong power, 95-96. The ability to miss bats. A wipeout breaking ball. The ability to strikeout 3 hitters in an inning. A tremendous addition to our bullpen. Hopefully he'll be there for a long time, so we don't have to worry about our closer for a while. We know who our closer is. It makes it a little bit easier to manage the bullpen once you have a set closer and he's our guy. He's got the weapons to close. He's got the mentally, he's got the stuff. I'm excited to have him and I know him. So we aren't going into this blind, we know the person, the person is great, the person is completive, he's going to fit in really nice. Can't wait to see him again.
Jon Rauch had trouble with home runs. Why?
He left balls up in the strike zone. (laughs). Rauch can pitch, he's a very good pitcher, he can locate. At times the ball got elevated and they got him. Rauch doesn't throw that hard. He's 88-90 and when the ball comes up in the strike zone it is very easy to hit, when the ball is down in the strike zone, coming from that big frame, it was very hard to hit. He was leaving balls up in the zone. Also playing in ball parks, you know the AL East isn't the easiest place to pitch. I know the other divisions are getting better, so I don't know if I can use that line much anymore. It's a tough league. The Boston line up is still one of the best in baseball, the New York line up is always tough, the Tampa Bay Rays are always tough, the Baltimore Orioles can always hit.
Rogers Centre isn't the best place to pitch. It's small and its comfortable. It isn't overly cold, or overly hot. If it is they close it. So it's comfortable for the hitters, the hitters get a great look at the baseball there, they love hitting there and the ball flies. Boston the ball flies. The wall intimidates you as a pitcher. Boston pretty good hitting ball park. New York pretty good hitting ballpark. Tampa Bay pretty good hitting ballpark. Baltimore is fair. I think Baltimore is the fairest one of them all. I think all those when you add them up it is a home run league.
Are you worried that we didn't add another starter this year?
No I'm not worried. I like my rotation, I liked my rotation at the end of last year. I thought we completed very well. I think with Ricky and Brandon and Brett, I think Brett is going to have a good year and Henderson was fabulous and McGowan showed signs of rebounding and coming back. I think that's a pretty good rotation. Adding to the bullpen with a closer and we know Darren Oliver, what he does. Jason Frasor and Casey Janssen, those are 4 big time guys going into the end of the game that know their roles going into spring training. I think they will be really good this year. As much as you want to add pieces, sometimes you can't, sometimes it's hard. I think we added the pieces where we needed to.
If you looked at our season last year, the most glaring thing was the 22 blown saves. 22. You can point fingers here and there but we did blow 22 saves. At times we didn't pitch deep enough into games as starters, regardless our middle guys held it and we had a chance to win those games and we failed. If we win half those games it's 10 games. Maybe that's 81 to 91. I'm really happy that the end of the game is going to be more consistent. That's nothing against Frankie or I thought Dotel pitched well for us before he was traded and I thought that Frankie had a heck of a second half.
(Francisco) never really got rolling till the second half till the second half. When he got rolling he was good, we needed that Frankie at the beginning of the season, we didn't have that at the beginning of the season and that hurt us. We missed Frankie at the beginning of the season. He just had some lingering stuff, tried to get it done and he couldn't get it done. It showed. And when he got healthy it showed.
I was hoping Casey would be the 8th inning guy this year.
(This was before the Cordero signing).Well Casey did most of the 8th inning stuff at the end of the year last year and I'm sure he'll get more 8th inning stuff. I think that between him and Jason and Darren, they are all the 8th inning guys. The only time when Casey didn't get the 8th is when he pitched a couple of days in a row. Casey had a heck of a year, Casey is coming into his own, he knows how to pitch, he'll keeping the ball down, he's doing everything that he needs to do to get his outs. And he's a legitimate 8th inning guys and if you have a legitimate 8th inning guy that's pitching the 7th that's a pretty good bullpen.
What do you think of the Jays having pitchers skip Vegas?
It isn't the funest place to pitch, you have to do different things to pitch there. It's not the ideal place to develop, just because the ball travels. You gotta pitch backwards, you gotta do a lot of things. You have to go against getting ready for the big leagues. I want them to pitch in, I want them to throw a lot of fastballs. I want them to get their fastball command. When you are in a league that hitters can only hit fastballs, most of them, that's why they are in Triple-A. And in a league that the ball flies, so they are throwing a lot of off-speed pitches and they are throwing the wrong way to put up numbers, which they need to do. What do you tell a kid, it's ok to do that, so you don't have a good ERA so people don't notice you. So what do you do. So it's not the ideal place to judge pitching, it's not the ideal place to teach pitching, it's not the ideal place to develop place to develop pitching.
I think you have to shave points off. If it is a 5 or 6 ERA, it's likely a 4 and a half. Then again you are guessing. What if? The what ifs get you in trouble. What if he was playing there, but he's not he's playing here, and this is what he is doing. It depends on who it is and what they need to do with that certain pitcher. I don't think it is that bad to come up from Double-A. Then again you like to see the guys come through the levels. Levels are there for a reason. Each level has its own challenges. And once they meet those challenges, and you see how they handle them, it gives you the most information you can possibly have to decide if this guy is ready to come up and handle our league.
So you like the levels, you'd like to see how they do at the levels and when someone comes up from Single-a or Double-a you are like ohhhhh. He might not have been bad yet. I need him to be bad. I want to see what happens to them when they are bad. Because you are going to be bad in the big leagues, it is a given, I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are Roy Halladay, I've seen hit bad. What are you going to do when you are bad.
We got 7 off (David) Price one day, then Price was good for 12 straight. So we know how he handles bad. He forgets about it, he lets it go. He gets it. And he's fine, he gets it.
That must be the hardest thing about pitching, to forget?
Short term memory. It's the hardest thing to give a pitcher. They wear it on their sleeves. Some of them because of the team . Some of them for selfish reasons, which are fine, contract and stuff like that. If I don't get somebody out I'm not going to get paid. How much more pressure do you need? This is the job I choose, I've thrown everything away in my life to do this occupation, knowing there is a reward at the end of the rainbow if I do well. If I don't do well, I gotta go back and start life over. Go back to school, get an education. So a lot of these players, including myself, threw everything out the window to chase this dream. The dream isn't only to pitcher here but to make a career out of it, support your family and it's almost like becoming an actor. There isn't much of a fallback baseball players, other than those that are scholar and player. That's not that common.
There is a lot of pressure on them, the mental part of the game is huge at the big leagues. At the big leagues they let you know how you are doing. There are 50,000 people telling you how you are doing, there's a social network now, there's newspapers still, there's blogs. Everybody is not afraid to tell you how you doing or how you're not doing. I try to keep them off the social networks, for the most part, other than if they do it the right way. Just because they read something and they take it to heart. That guy doesn't know you, he doesn't know what happened next week. I'm the only one that knows what happened. And they come to the field and think maybe they are right, maybe I suck. I'm like no you don't.
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It sounds like Walton speaks very strangely.
by scrambles the death dealer on Jan 28, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions
Thanks Tom, it was a wonderful read
It is very interesting to hear the perspective about the pitchers. I can imagine how scary it is to chase the dream and the pressure to succeed, but I guess I’ve never understood why it’s difficult to start another career if you don’t succeed. I suppose that separates the driven from the rest of us that live regular normal lives? I would think that the intensity of being professional athletes would lend itself naturally to many different fulfilling careers. Of course you’d have to let the whole life dream disappointment not get to you.
Regardless, I enjoyed reading this series.
If you can't convince them, confuse them!
by Carm on Jan 28, 2012 2:29 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
+1
And yes I rec’d as well. lol
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 28, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
thats my boy!
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Jan 28, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
It isn’t the funest place to pitch, you have to do different things to pitch there. It’s not the ideal place to develop, just because the ball travels. You gotta pitch backwards, you gotta do a lot of things
We need to get AAA out of Vegas and move it somewhere where it will benefit our young talent’s development. If batting stats are skewed, pitching stats are skewed and they are worried that having pitchers at our AAA team will hurt their development because of they way the ball flies out of the park, then i think we need to get the team somewhere where it is more beneficial to the club, with all due respect to the 51’s.
I'f I'm not mistaken..
I think this season is the last year of their contact with Vegas. Maybe they can find a new home? What caused them to leave Syracuse in the first place?
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 28, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
It is the last contract year with Vegas
Syracuse left the Jays, not vice versa. Options in th International League with expiring contracts after 2012 include Buffalo, Columbus, Syracuse, Toledo, Indianapolis, Pawtucket, Louisville, Lehigh Valley (source)
A lot of people seem to blame JP for Syracuse leaving. I didn’t follow sports too closely back then to say why though.
As a Toronto sports fan I proudly follow the lessons of lachrymology.
"Vancouver, BC: A massive inferiority complex with a city." - TheOtherAndrew
William of Nassau am I, of Dutch blood. Loyal to the fatherland I will remain until I die.
Buffalo would be ideal..
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 28, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Rochester might be more realistic
They’ve finished last in the IL the last two years, the Twins system isn’t very good right now, and there isn’t a local tie to the team. Buffalo is in the same state as the Mets, so the Mets have an advantage in keeping their affiliate if they so desire.
by gabrielsyme on Jan 28, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
though the financial situation of the Mets may underwhelm Buffalo some
Also, having lived in Syracuse for three years, many of the folks I knew from western NY were fans of the Red Sox, Yankees, or Indians, with some Jays fans thrown in as well. The Mets, for whatever reason, were less popular than a smattering (is that the right word?) of teams out there.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
I think he needs to go back to Vegas
If he doesn’t make the rotation out of spring training. He needs to learn how to collect himself after giving up a couple runs and pound the zone down regardless if he’s going to be successful in the AL East. He could probably go back to AA and do the same I guess, but intuitively AAA seems more logical given his problems
The ball carrying in Vegas is only one aspect of it, I find this part of Bruce Walton’s answer much more interesting:
I want them to pitch in, I want them to throw a lot of fastballs. I want them to get their fastball command. When you are in a league that hitters can only hit fastballs, most of them, that’s why they are in Triple-A. And in a league that the ball flies, so they are throwing a lot of off-speed pitches and they are throwing the wrong way to put up numbers, which they need to do.
This is probably the best explanation I’ve heard of the dilemma of young pitchers in AAA – they are there to work on their fastball command in a league of hitters who are ready to hit major-league fastballs (but can’t hit other pitches).
But whether it’s this or Vegas or whatever, this is the key part of his answer for me:
So you like the levels, you’d like to see how they do at the levels and when someone comes up from Single-a or Double-a you are like ohhhhh. He might not have been bad yet. I need him to be bad. I want to see what happens to them when they are bad. Because you are going to be bad in the big leagues, it is a given,
To really evaluate young players you need to seem them experience failure and how they react to it. Most pitchers, whether they skip it initially or not, will end up spending a chunk of time in AAA within their first few years, and that’s how it should be.
Vegas may be more challenging than other places, but baseball teams have been developing talent there and in the PCL for decades, and they’ve managed just fine. I don’t like Vegas, because it’s so far from Toronto, but otherwise big deal if it’s a tougher place to play.
Major-league players have to be able to play in cities across the States with varying climate (extreme heat in say Texas, altitude in Colorado, cold and wet in other places, etc), so I’m fine with seeing how our guys respond to being tested by the challenges in Vegas.
Vegas may be more challenging than other places, but baseball teams have been developing talent there and in the PCL for decades, and they’ve managed just fine.
The thing is, not really. They just have their best pitchers skip it. The problem is, it’s not the just the failure, it’s not a good place to pefect the things a pitcher might need to work on. Take Henderson Alvarez. No problem with the fastball/change-up, it’s the breaking ball he needs to work on – he doesn’t really have a feel for it. But the ball doesn’t break )the same way, or really at all) at altitude, so tryig to hace him learn one in Negas would be pretty futile.
This is my concern:
that the Jays have a lot of promising pitchers coming up – if its often better for their development to skip Vegas then it must become an organizational challenge to have New Hampshire as the primary stepping stone to the big leagues. Seems like running out of room could be a problem.
In any case I sure hope that the Jays have a AAA affiliate where players can learn more than just “how to be bad”.
by Mike Friesen on Jan 29, 2012 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Our own pitching coach doesn’t understand how blown saves works… le sigh.
by brent in Korea on Jan 28, 2012 5:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
lol
There are major league hitters, major league pitchers and major league coaches. Regardless of how bad some coaches are in in-game strategy,etc vs. other major league coaches – they are elite in their craft. I’m sure the coaches at the major league level do not judge a relievers value on saves or other meaningless stats. Lets give them more of a benefit of the doubt. lol
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 29, 2012 4:07 AM EST up reply actions
I think..
it was more of a figure of speech. I doubt he thinks 22 blown saves = 22 possible wins.
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 29, 2012 4:04 AM EST up reply actions
he never said 22 wins from those blown saves.
And jumping to ‘he doesn’t understand saves’ is taking a huge leap. You’d have to be reading a lot of stuff that isn’t there to get to that. I think blowing a few less saves would be a good thing. I’m happy that the team has improved the bullpen.
I blog, therefore I am.
by Tom Dakers on Jan 29, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And that's why I didn't jump to the conclusion
he doesn’t understand saves. :)
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 29, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
*that he doesnt...
I am the one who knocks.
by outoforder87 on Jan 29, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
What he said was definitely incorrect though
The “if we won half those (22 blown saves) we might have had 91 wins instead of 81” part. Not all of the blown saves = losses and I’m almost 100% certain less than 10 ended up being losses anyway
But like I said, its not really his job to know that much. Pitching wise he obviously has much more knowledge than any of us
Nicolino/Syndergaard
Would love his thoughts on these guys if possible. (great interview btw)
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 29, 2012 2:07 PM EST reply actions

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