Bullpen Taking Shape
With the recent addition of free agent lefty reliever and noted quadragenarian Darren Oliver, followed by the return of all-time Jays appearance leader Jason "dammit, stop calling me Frazier Pat Tabler!" Frasor, we can begin to seriously project and evaluate what the bullpen will look like in 2012. For the purposes of this post I will look at each pitcher in order of highest to lowest leverage in terms of the innings they are likeliest to pitch.
Sergio Santos: Easily the best stuff of the group, with a fastball that touches 97-98 at times and a slider which was among the elite pitches in all of baseball this past season in terms of whiff-rate. AA wanted a power arm who misses bats to take on the murderous lineups of the AL East and he appears to have found him in Santos, a converted short stop who has less wear on his arm than most 28 year-old pitchers and is under team control for up to 6 years. There will be occasional rocky outings, as Santos is not unaccustomed to handing out walks (4.3BB/9). Even so, the Jays have to be extremely pleased that they did not need to venture into the free agent market to get their closer of the present and future.
Casey Janssen: Coming off his best season as a Jay, Janssen will likely see regular duty immediately preceding Santos in the 8th inning in a setup role. While by no means overpowering, Janssen has proven himself to be a reliable strike-thrower and gets more K's than one might think (8+K/9 each of the past two seasons). He also can be relied upon to effectively attack lefties and righties alike (it will be interesting to see if his "reverse-split" status was a one season fluke). One caveat, however, would be that Janssen's career-low HR/FB of 4.3% is probably not sustainable. But even if that number regresses to the mean (about 9%) Janssen figures to be an asset late in games once again.
Darren Oliver: World Series fiasco notwithstanding, Oliver is a pitcher the Jays should be comfortable with in high-leverage situations and will likely be paired with Janssen to form a potentially formidable setup combo. Like Janssen, Oliver is a converted starter, though he did so much later in his career (and I do mean much). His late-career renaissance has been astounding, posting a career-best ERA of 2.29 at the age of 41. His splits are not Octavio Dotel-horrible by any means, but I would still anticipate that Oliver will face lefties a vast majority of the time. This was a low-risk acquisition for the Jays with virtually no downside. If the Jays are not in contention once the dog days roll around, Oliver's one year deal with a club option will be very attractive to teams looking to get bullpen help for a playoff push.
Jason Frasor: By all accounts Mr. Frasor and his Toronto-born spouse are ecstatic about returning to the Blue Jays. Jays fans should be no less enthused, and not just because it's a nice story. He brings a formidable fastball-slider combo (though by no means as impressive as that of Santos) and a wealth of experience pitching in the 7th and 8th innings. I won't say any more here since Jays fans know pretty much what they are getting in Frasor: a reliable if unspectacular veteran bullpen arm.
Jesse Litsch: Like many who have transitioned to the pen before him, Jesse Litsch probably still believes he can be an effective starter. And who knows, maybe he can be. I happen to think that the Jays don't see him as a starter at this point and were justifiably impressed by his short stint in the pen late last year. After the trade for Colby Rasmus left an already shallow bullpen in shambles, Litsch was one of the few bright spots outside of the consistent Janssen and late-surging Frank Francisco. Though a surprisingly nimble athlete, it's not hard to imagine shorter outings being more suitable for someone built like Litsch, who figures to miss more bats than in the past as well.
Carlos Villanueva: Though certainly capable of starting as he demonstrated in the first half last year, I am operating under the assumption that Carlos V winds up an important cog in the pen rather than the 5th starter. He is a logical candidate to become the go to long-man out of the pen for when Brandon Morrow puts up a 4IP/12K/5BB/3ER/110P line or Brett Cecil simply gets shelled. I would not be surprised if Villanueva ends up in the top 3 in the pen in terms of innings pitched and therefore WAR (which is of course cumulative).
Luis Perez: This is the first pitcher on this list who is perhaps best described as a plausible candidate for the pen rather than probable (the same status applies to all other subsequent candidates as well). Perez tried a bit of everything for the Jays last year, dabbling with starting to mixed (though mostly bad) results and eventually winding up in a relief role. This is a pen in need of a reliable left-handed pitcher even in light of the Oliver acquisition, and Perez is the most logical choice at this point in time, though you could make an argument for recent addition Aaron Laffey in this spot as well.
Wildcards:
Joel Carreno: Remains to be seen if the Jays think he could still develop into a starter by having him pitch in Las Vegas, where pitching prospects go to die. Personally, I would rather see him break with the major league club after spring training with a low-leverage role in the bullpen.
Chad Beck: Like Carreno, still a candidate to end up with the '51's, presumably as their closer. Will likely only get the call if injuries necessitate it.
Dustin McGowan: I have high hopes (as do the Jays) that he can be perhaps the best 5th starter stuff-wise in the majors. If that doesn't work out (and for reasons not health-related) then McGowan immediately challenges Santos for the title of most dominant pitcher in the bullpen. He won't close, since the Jays have made it clear they have committed to Sergio Santos in this role barring some unforeseen catastrophe, but he could certainly challenge Janssen for the lion's share of the setup responsibilities.
So that's where it stands right now. All in all, not an unimpressive group by any means. AA proved last year that he could cobble together a pen with seemingly random parts (some with the intent of gaining compensation picks, lets be honest) but I think this year he has done a much better job. This time, more of the assembled pieces have a chance to be a part of the core of players that will hopefully see the Jays compete for division and World Series titles for years to come, just as Ward and Henke did when they were an underrated part of the "glory years".
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Nice
Btw your stat line for Brandon Morrow means he recorded a strikeout for every out :)
I am the Walrus
Nice fanpost
I really like the bullpen heading into 2012. Even though statistically a bullpen isn’t that important, I think it is a lot more fun to watch when you look forward to when Farrel comes trotting out to the mound.
Also I like how you didnt mention Cecil :P I think hes a starter too :)
Thanks
I thought about including Cecil in the wildcards section but I think the Jays still believe in him as a back-end starter. I suppose if come August both Drabek and Hutchison are lighting the world on fire he could still end up relieving.
The only way I think Cecil should go to the pen
Is if he pitches his way there. To me this is his last chance to prove hes better than the alternatives.
yup, I think you're probably right
if he pitches well (like 2010) he’s definitely deserving of a rotation spot. even if his best years only equal 2010 (remember he was just 24), he’s a decent #3/excellent #4 starter. if he indeed has lost something as a starter, well, we could do worse for a lefty reliever
I like Cecil's chances in 2012
and then he gets traded like Marcum was in the off-season when Hutchison or McGuire comes knocking on the door in 2013.
or we trade Hutchison or McGuire for a major league piece.. that could happen too. Depends which trade AA finds more value from
I'm open to either
I just don’t like the idea of converting a 25 year old with some MLB success in his past into a reliever. I understand we might have to at 1 point but the point isn’t now by any means.
It just makes sense to plug him into the rotation 1 more year and hope he does well. He is in the “best shape of his life” and if that translates into “can throw faster” he might be able to make a living as a #3 in the AL bEast
right
I think AA is going about building a bullpen in precisely the right way – cheap, low-risk veterans (Oliver, Frasor, Janssen, Villnueva, Litsch) to fill needed holes, and cost-controlled young players who probably can’t cut it as a starter everywhere else (Santos, Perez, Carreno maybe, probably more guys as the mass of talented low Minors prospects wash out of starting). this way, while you likely aren’t going to have the absolute best bullpen in the league, you get a decent-to-very good bullpen at a fraction of the cost of an elite one. AA knows it’s not hard to find good, solid veteran relievers on low-risk deals and with the farm system he’s built he’ll have no problem getting very good high-leverage relievers too.
<3 AA
by benk on Jan 3, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is very true
Never realized it either thanks for educating me.
statistically a reliever isn't that important
But the bullpen as a whole certainly is since they will pitch between 500-600 innings (basically equal to that of the top 3 starters on the team).
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 3, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Couldnt you
pitch better relievers more frequently than others though? dont you only really need 3 good relievers and a closer?
of course
But realistically, you are still going to have a lot of innings going to other pitchers. Having good pitchers top to bottom is probably better then having replacement level players + a few great pitchers (though I may be talking out of my you know what).
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 3, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
The bullpen is a funny topic
Because opinions can range so much on so many different things. I believe that having 3 great pitchers + replacement level pitchers is better than a top to bottom good bullpen.
well
it would depend on the statistical difference in production between replacement level, “good”, and “great” really
of course it would
with injuries, and if a “good” RP is like 1 WAR/75 IP and a “great” RP is 1.25 WAR/75 IP then the top to bottom good bullpen is almost definitely preferable
I bet if we had 3 great low relievers
They could pitch 80% of relief innings
That would mean 130-160 innings each
That is a lot of innings for a reliever. The most pitched last year by any reliever was 93
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 3, 2012 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
low relievers
Like Litsch or McGowan pitching around 60 pitches (7th, 8th and 9th) on a 3 day rotation with 1 ace who has around 5 CG on the season.
Its possible just highly unlikely. Nobody leaves in a reliever for 3 innings every 3 days but if you only had 3 great and wanted to go for a pennant…
Nope, see below
You’re ignoring the inherent tradeoff. If they could go that, most of those relievers would be effective starters
This is the case for a very simple reason
For almost every reliever, they are effective presicely because they pitch few innings: they are specialists who go all out. If they paced themselves, their effectiveness would be much less.
There are laments for relievers who pitch more innings like in the 70s, but it’s just a different game now – they are specialists, and the reason they pitch less is to maximize effectiveness. It’s just a Nash equilibrium in a way
I disagree
I know thats what is intended but if you had to build a bullpen with only 3 pitchers you would probably select starters and convert them into relievers.
My argument is that is possible and not that far out of the realm of possibility. I doubt it would ever happen but if you had to choose only 3 pitchers for a bullpen it would be possible in ideal situation to work.
if you had to build a bullpen with only 3 pitchers you would probably select starters and convert them into relievers.
That would mean you had 8 pitchers who were at least fringey MLB quality starters. No team has that. And if they did, a far better use of their resources would be to trade them for help in other areas, and then use lesser arms (meaing, cannot go as many innings) to fill the bullpen innings, and get just as good (or better) results. There’s a reason why scoring drops in the 7th onwards, it’s because you bring in specialists
But going into spring training we have
Romero
Morrow
Cecil
Alverez
McGowan
Drabek
Hutcheson
McGuire
Villanueva
Perez
Carreno
et al
Have to go with Mike on this one. Though I’d say a five man bullpen. three 3+ innings guys, set-up and closer.
I’ve been thinking this for years; your relievers are young controllable guys that do a year or two in bullpen, then replace starters who are either too expensive or are traded at their peak value for young prospects that eventually break into the league in your bullpen.
by BuffaloSojourn on Jan 4, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
Hutchison and McGuire have a combined three motnhs above High-A; neither is MLB ready.
Second, I don;t know why you’d want to use the cheapest years of control you have (pre-arb) having guys in the bullpen when they can either be developing as starters in the minors, or pitching everyday. That said, I’m not completely against breaking a guy in the bullpen, if you have a full rotation.
Regardless, a five man bullpen just doesn’t really work in an age of specialization. There’s a reason the 7 man bullpen has taken hold.
But a 5 man bullpen would also allow a longer bench
And possibly a 6th starter :)
A 6th starter just means your best starters pitch less often, which is counterproductive.
A longer bench…in the AL, you don’t really need a longer bench, usually don;t use it, which is why those guys have been reallocated to more bullpen arms.
It’s fine to want that, it’s not going to happen in the near future…longer terms, things can change, but it’s generally futile to try and predict.
Exactly
It’ll never happen. Purely conjecture. But it’s January, and mind games are all we got.
By the by, you knock Hutch and McGuire off the list, that still leaves nine legit starters.
Of course, as a devil’s advocate I’d say is about how many different starters a team will use over the course of a season.
by BuffaloSojourn on Jan 5, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough on it being January. But hey, 2 weeks to pitchers and catchers reporting, right?
By the by, you knock Hutch and McGuire off the list, that still leaves nine legit starters.
Depends what you mean by legit starters. I’d submit that Perez, Villaneuva and Carreno are not legit starters in terms of being capaable starters long-term, leaving us with 6 (and we don’t really know exactly how legit of a starter McGowan will be, but I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt). That said, anyone of those 3 would be fine as spot starters, just not legit long-term options.
Well, you sleep 1/3 of the time
so really, it’s only 4 weeks.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 5, 2012 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm counting down to Spring training
On my Blue Jays calender.
Its not helping.
Well, I'm pretty sure the scale goes
Amazing
Great
Very Good
Good
Pretty Good
Mediocre
Replacement Level
You’re right though, arguing about what subjective valuation is better than another is kind of ridiculous.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Jan 3, 2012 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
One thing to consider though
Is that the Jays rotation situation still looks murky. The bullpen was one of the best during the first couple of months, but I think the fact that they had to consistently come in during middle innings was a huge reason for their collapse. The bottom end of the rotation is more important for a team like Toronto than someone like Tampa who has an amazing rotation and can afford to have only a few really effective relievers.
How did the Braves pen look in September?....//Sarcasm Font?
by Matthew Mueller on Jan 3, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
why settle for less than great
I think I get this argument, but shouldn’t everyone be great at what they do and isn’t that what’s important, as long as you have a manager worth his weight in salt.
Looks good right now. I love the defined roles compared to last year.
Hopefully they are all on the team after the trade deadline.
by Matthew Mueller on Jan 3, 2012 11:33 PM EST reply actions
Looks good-ish
This is a solid-average bullpen on paper, not a significantly above-average one. That is perfectly acceptable, and a number of the pieces could have trade value at the deadline (Frasor, Oliver, Janssen, maybe Villanueva).
really?
the top three in the bullpen ALONE (Santos, Janssen, Oliver) were worth 4.2 WAR in 2011 – this would have put this three-man bullpen eighth in fWAR in the Majors. adding five average-at-worst relievers in Litsch, Frasor and Villanueva plus high upside arms in Carreno and Perez makes me very confident that this will be an exceptional ’pen
just to give you an idea
median bullpen fWAR was 2.85 fWAR in 2011, and average bullpen fWAR was about 3.
the Jays bullpen in 2011 was 2.6 fWAR
top-10 maybe
I still wish we kept Francisco :(
Beware of using WAR for bullpens
It’s a counting stat as well as measuring quality. For example, a mediocre bullpen could out-WAR a better but less frequently used bullpen simply by racking up the innings.
I guess the way to account for that is to do a WAR/inning comparison.
okay, fair point
I don’t feel like doing the work in any case, but I am still adamant that this bullpen has the chance to be outstanding. it would take some serious regression from many key contributors for it to be below average.
I agree
This is on paper the strongest bullpen the Jays have had in a while. It has a nice mix of styles and guys suited for specific roles.
Would you trade or extend Jannsen
Jannsen is replaceable with Carreno, do you extend him out for two with an option at 3 years 6 million, or combine him another piece to improve the team
I wouldn’t extend him before closer to the end of th season. I really like Janssen, but in the end relivers make terrible multi-years contract candidates. At the deadline, I’d be willing to deal him, depending of course on where the Jays are in the standings.
At the end of the day, you just can’t overpay for relief pitching
by MjwW on Jan 8, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't extend him for 3 years
But I wouldn’t give a 3 year contract to any average/competent reliever, so it’s not just Janssen. I’d certainly use him as trade filler, but I’d also be happy to keep him, just not on a 3 year deal.

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