Barry Larkin Voted to Hall of Fame
by Tom Dakers on Jan 9, 2012 3:01 PM EST
in Toronto Blue Jays News
Email
PrintBarry Larkin is the only one to be on 75% of the Writers ballots.
I would have liked to have seen Raines and Bagwell make it.
Name Votes Yrs on ballot
Barry Larkin 495 (86.4%) 3
Jack Morris 382 (66.7%) 13
Jeff Bagwell 321 (56.0%) 2
Lee Smith 290 (50.6%) 10
Tim Raines 279 (48.7%) 5
Alan Trammell 211 (36.8%) 11
Edgar Martinez 209 (36.5%) 3
Fred McGriff 137 (23.9%) 3
Larry Walker 131 (22.9%) 2
Mark McGwire 112 (19.5%) 6
Don Mattingly 102 (17.8%) 12
Dale Murphy 83 (14.5%) 14
Rafael Palmeiro 72 (12.6%) 2
Bernie Williams 55 (9.6%) 1
Juan Gonzalez 23 (4.0%) 2
Vinny Castilla 6 (1.0%) 1
Tim Salmon 5 (0.9%) 1
Bill Mueller 4 (0.7%) 1
Brad Radke 2 (0.3%) 1
Javy Lopez 1 (0.2%) 1
Eric Young 1 (0.2%) 1
Jeromy Burnitz 0 (0%) 1
Brian Jordan 0 (0%) 1
Terry Mulholland 0 (0%) 1
Phil Nevin 0 (0%) 1
Ruben Sierra 0 (0%) 1
Tony Womack 0 (0%) 1
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well said
I’m glad Larkin is in, but others were deserving too.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
and Jack Morris at #2
what a joke. The writers and Morris can all go have carnal relations with themselves. Raines, Trammell, Bagwell and Martinez all deserved better. McGwire too, but he did PEDs so he’s evil, to their reasoning. Those idiots will leave Bonds off the ballot the first time around next year too, I’ll bet.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
I feel the same way
I shouldn’t care, because it’s meaningless and I knew it was coming. Still makes me want to break all the rules on language for this site though.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
Congrats
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Jan 9, 2012 3:08 PM EST reply actions
He was the winningest pitcher of the '80's!!!
And he was a competitor!!! and he was such a great postseason pitcher!!!
Remember ’92? Oh, wait a minute …
by Defense Counts! on Jan 9, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Juan Gonzalez
Surprised that he didnt get the 5% necessary to stay on the ballot. I don’t think he’s a HOFer by any standard, but I figured he’d clear the 5%
well, he had before
but since he was never going to get in and there isn’t really anyone touting his candidacy, I’m not surprised.
Also, Bagwell definitely should have gotten in, but he did see a solid 14.3% gain. He should get in soon. Tim Raines also got a nice bump, but that he’s at the level of Lee Smith is a shame
Yes
The good news is, Bagwell should make it in within the next couple years…though the ballot gets very, very crowded soon.
And Raines has 10 years to ge tthe remaining 25.something% he needs, so he should eventually make it, though he’s already overdue
MLB.com published their writers' HoF ballots
so that’s good for transparency and all that. They also had each write a paragraph explaining their choices. You can see it here: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120108&content_id=26288362&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
Lots of ink (or, perhaps more properly, electricity from one’s mother’s basement) has been spilled about the obsession with Jack Morris’ candidacy, so we don’t need to go into that here. But the most absurd ballot of the lot has to belong to Barry M Bloom. He actually had the balls to almost fill his ballot (listing 9 candidates), so that’s maybe a redeeming feature – but he named McGwire, Martinez, Palmeiro, and Lee Smith but left off Bagwell!!
I cannot think of any possible justification for naming those guys and not Bagwell. Even if you subscribe to the ridiculous guilty-until-proven-innocent idea that Bagwell is tainted by roids because he hasn’t peed in a cup while Mike Lupica watches or something, you can’t then vote for McGwire and Palmeiro – right….right?
Peter Gammons probably has the best ballot
Larkin, Bagwell, Raines, McGwire, Trammell
I know some don’t like McGwire’s candidacy, but I would probably vote for him.
It's a good ballot
But would be better with Edgar Martinez, and I’m ambivalent about McGwire as HOFer
ya, I'd like that better
but Gammons had the most reasonable of the 15 published
I think I actually hate the BBWAA
How these people are allowed to get paid to be “knowledgable” about baseball simply blows my mind.
you should try pity them...
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Anyone listen to Mike Wilner on Tim and Sid just now?
1. Says Bonds, McGwire and all the other “cheaters” should still get in
2. He’d be surprised if more than 20% of the league was clean during their era
Don’t know much or have much of an opinion on either, just thought it was interesting
I think Wilner is right
I don’t care about the PEDs thing because I think it was so widespread, it essentially made for an even playing field. Also, PEDs or no PEDs, Bonds is the best ballplayer I have ever seen. I’m old enough to remember skinny Bonds and McGwire and they were still amazing ballplayers. They deserve to get in.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
skinny Bonds, yes
skinny McGwire is probably a bit more controversial
Skinny McGwire hit 49 homeruns in 1987
21 of them were at home in the cavernous Oakland Coliseum. He had the power before the steroids. I still think he would have been a HOF candidate.
One interesting thing, his last hr of the ’87 season was against John Farrell.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
sure, you can take that position
but I think a lot of people won’t make that jump. if Bonds had retired before taking steroids he’d be a HoFer anyway. McGwire’s case would depend on how he aged
I doubt the baseball writer's will let them in
but I personally think Mcgwire and Sosa should be in the HoF. I think they are the biggest reason people came back to watching baseball after the 1994 strike. Regardless of numbers, you can’t write the history of baseball without them and their contributions to the game (positive and negative) should be recognized.
by Matthew Mueller on Jan 10, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure that was the case…I mean, it’s the narrative, but people would have come back.
For me Sosa is not a HOFer, just on the numbers, even before the steroids issues. His OBP was pretty awful for most of his career
I think his OBP is irrelevant. A career 878 OPS and 600+ hrs should be enough.
by Matthew Mueller on Jan 10, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
He hit 243 hrs in a 4 year span. That is crazy.
by Matthew Mueller on Jan 10, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Personally, I don’t think you can consider those HR without assessing the steroid impact, but as I said I leave that aside.
An 878 career OPS from an OF is very good, but it’s not elite. Sosa only put up 50 WAR over his career, at best that is a borderline HOF, and for me, as a small Hall guy, not enough.
George Foster his 52 home runs in 1977
Cecil Fielder hit 51 in 1990. One high-home run season does not a Hall of Famer make. Skinny McGwire was a good player and had some great seasons, but I’m not convinced that his skinny days added up to a Hall of Fame career by themselves. If he had continued to play well into his mid-to-late 30’s without the PED issue, he very well could have been a HoFer, but I don’t think he did enough before that to warrant a definite HoF nod.
It was his rookie season at age 23 unlike Foster or Fielder, which is an indicator of a better career than either of those guys
However, he actually wasn’t skinny McGwire for long either, I remember him being pretty jacked up in the early ’90s.
For what it’s worth, Jose Canseco believed that McGwire would have been a star with or without the steroids unlike himself. He said that McGwire was already a big strong kid and had a great swing.
I still don’t care about the steroids issue, too many guys were doing them for anybody to have a distinct advantage. Maybe McGwire had the edge in his Oakland days when they were the pioneers in taking steroids (at least according to Canseco) but by the time he got to St. Louis, too many hitters and pitchers were doing it.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
having a good rookie season is not an indication of having a better career than someone who has a similarly season later
its an indication of having a good rookie season, nothing more. Tons of guys have had great rookie seasons and gone one to nothing careers. Tons of guys have had bad rookie seasons and gone on to be superstars. The two have nothing to do with each other.
McGwire was a very good player, even when he was skinny. But I disagree that his numbers pre-PED-controversy were enough to put him in the HoF by themselves. If I had to guess, he probably would have been Hall worthy without the PEDs, but it’s not a slam dunk like skinny Bonds.
that's not really true
I’d be shocked if there isn’t a decent correlation between rookie season success and rest-of-career success.
I'm sure there is
guys who have good rookie years are, I’m sure, much more likely to become stars than guys who have bad rookie seasons. But simply saying “this guy had a good rookie year, therefore I conclude that he had a better career than some other guy who didn’t have a good rookie year but had other good non-rookie years” is not valid.
Well, his skinny numbers aren't enough because he didn't have that many years not juicing, unlike Bonds
Like you, I’m guessing he would have been good enough without the PEDs, but ultimately, we’ll never know.
He’s a borderline case too, unlike Bonds. Bonds was just amazing, with and without PEDs.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
I basically agree
In a way, any type of technological advancement will advantage certain players at the expense of others…for example, Tommy John surgery allows pitchers to extedn their career when pitchers 50 years ago couldn’t…should that he held against them? It’s definitely unnatural.
I also agree on Bonds…simply because, has be retired in 1999 before he went all HR berserk, he already had the credentials of a first ballot, inner circle HOFer.
totally agree
Lazik eye surgery, they’ll be cloning new joints within 15 years, people should get over steroid era it’s such a strange fixation some fans have. Cortizone is a steroid that’s use is incredibly widespread throughout sports, and it is most certainly performance enhancing..so who is deciding which are the helpful good enhancements, and which ones are bad?
I pretty much agree
Bonds is a no doubter, McGwire’s a bit iffy, but I’ll still vote him in
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
you got a vote?
where do I sign up for mine?
Jack Morris
Is officially the most overrated pitcher of the 80s.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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Anyway
Larkin in the HoF is well-deserved. What a career he had.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
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The Tim Tebow of baseball
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
egghand sucks
There’s only sport that can properly be called football (hint: it’s played with an actual ball that is struck with the foot), and it’s a beautiful sport.
I finally looked up that egghand player called Tebow, but I refuse to acknowledge your comparison. :p
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rugby balls are also shaped like eggs
something tells me there’d be a lot of angry rugby fans if you started calling that an egg too
why would I?
It’s a proper sport, and one that’s not confusingly and strangely named.
(ok, Handegg, egghand whatev)
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Ball
“1.A solid or hollow sphere or ovoid, esp. one that is kicked, thrown, or hit in a game.”. Sounds like a football counts to me
I've seen the picture Woodman posted before
if we’re going by that (silly) definition, we should also call baseball handball (or gloveball), as well as volleyball (we could call that forearmball though)
of course
we don’t have to call it handegg. It could be called “boringball” or something.
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I actually don't like either type of football
I just try not to make fun of things other people like, it bothers me when people do it to me
I used to be a fan of American football
But my interest has subsided over the years. Now, I only really care about the Super Bowl.
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
What are you saying?
That you don’t like spending 2 1/2 hours of your day watching less than 12 minutes of actual action? (Although baseball might clock in at something similar).
by Defense Counts! on Jan 9, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ball
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
by Frag on Jan 9, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Kind of funny
How we paid him upwards of 10 million dollars and that was the memorable thing he did in a Raps uniform
did you watch
MLS, or a proper competition? :p
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When I first got into sports around 15 years ago
I tried watching some Premier League…I was loosely a Man U fan. But it couldn’t hold my interest. The only soccer game I’ve ever watched startto finish was a Canada/US women’s game about 10 years ago.
Last World Cup, I feel asleep in the middle of second half of the championship game
World Cups are mostly boring
The English Premier League is awesome to watch. Well, the Match of the Day highlights, anyway.
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In case it wasn't clear
That was a joke, not a declaration of war.
Wouldn’t catch me watching soccer, but to each, his/her own.
I'll still be shipping some missiles to Cuba
just in case it still becomes a war. :p
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I'm also curious to know
What are the chemicals they add into those water bottles in soccer matches. I ask this because after taking a sip from this magical drink, the injured soccer players suddenly rise as if nothing happened. =P
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
by Frag on Jan 9, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
Do you have a young, talented cost controlled player having a down year who's "attitude" has cased problems with an aging player or manager?
Don't worry, I Alex Anthopoulos will take him off your hands, I'll even give you some moderately useful veterans that will "help you make a playoff run".
The fault is with the FIFA
If there were proper rewards (free kicks/penalty kicks) for players who stay on their feet, they would not go down as easily.
If there were proper punishments, using video review, for players who dive, they’d not go down that easily.
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From what I understand, FIFA has much larger faults than than.
Sepp Blatter (I think that’s his name) makes Bud Selig look like a genius choirboy rather than the blundering used car salesman he is, and that’s no small feat
Was it FIFA that was bribed into making Qatar the host nation for the 2022 World Cup?
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct."
- Niels Bohr
Sorry, unauthorized hotlinking of copyrighted material not permitted.
From what little I’ve read, that’s just the (visible) tip of the iceberg. The rotting stench of corruption goes a lot deeper.
Although not a (proper) football fan myself
you can’t fault the sport for the atrociouc charade that is FIFA. We all love baseball, and we can’t fault the sport for the presence of Mr. Selig.
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
Football should be remembered for plays like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL_9HRinjmc
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4DMAgbOCuw
Unfortunately for me, this is the kind of thing that sticks in my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c17aeF7JxAg
Between the diving and the goal celebrations I have a hard time getting into what could be such a better sport without them…The goal celebrations I could live with but the diving and acting just kill me and turn me away…
by Bosc Ulrich on Jan 10, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
oh, definitely
FIFA is flawed in ways too plentiful to count.
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Deciding a World Cup match with penalty kicks ...
… is the ultimate absurdity for any sport.
by Defense Counts! on Jan 9, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
What happened to Juan Gone?
I remember watching him in a few games and thought he would be in the HOF at some point; 2 MVPs, etc. At one point he was a beast!
4% of voting. That means he didn’t get the 5% needed to be on the ballot next year. wow.
And PLEASE, get Edgar in the hall already. He did for DHing what Gossage did for closers.
by Marcos Montenegro on Jan 10, 2012 8:36 AM EST reply actions
Gonzalez was very good, not great
he was about as good as Delgado. only two seasons over 5 fWAR. Delgado had three (admittedly it’s an arbitrary point, but I chose it before looking at Carlos) and Delgado’s best seasons were significantly better than Gonzalez’s
Also
Was overated by the old stats…RBI in particular. He hit in a great line-up in a great hitter’s stadium in one one greatest eras for power hitters. Once you adjust for that, as you say, you get a very good player. Add in the fact that he fell off the proverbial table fairly young, and it’s not that surprising.
It was that one season in particular, where he threatened to break Hack Wilson's RBI record that got him more attention than he deserved
Like you said, hitting in a great line-up in a hitter’s stadium will do wonders for your numbers.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
he didn't really threaten the record
he had a great first half (he had around 100 RBI by the AS break, IIRC), but then fell off and finished with 157. The record is 190. That’s not really threatening.
Should have clarified that
You’re right, he was on pace at the AS break to break the record but fell off drastically in the second half. I just remember it was all the announcers could go on about that summer.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
Dale Murphy won 2 MVPs too
I know some people argue that he’s a HoFer, but plenty of players of that caliber don’t quite make it.
I'd rather see Dale Murphy in the HOF than Gonzalez
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
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