Blue Jay Spring Training Storylines
We don't have too many positional battles going on this spring, so what are the stories we should be watching?
1. Left Field, Snider or Thames: This is the biggest battle this spring. One makes the team, the other (most likely) goes to Vegas. Personally, if Snider does even ok this spring, I'd like to think the Jays would give him the job and tell him to relax and let him have it for the season. It would be a good time to show some patience with him. But that doesn't seem like what the Jays are doing.
Thames was pretty good last year, .262/.313/.456, 12 home runs in 95 games. Fangraphs had him at a .9 WAR. His defense pretty poor, which cost him in the WAR number, Fangraphs has him at a -15.9/150 UZR. Watching him, I think they are about right. He might be able to improve that, but adequate is about the best we can hope for from his glove.
I don't think Thames is a bad choice in LF, I just think that Snider has the better potential. But I think the team will let spring training decide who plays.
2. Last spot in the bullpen, Listch or Perez: Jesse was pretty good, coming out of the pen, last year. He had a 4.08 ERA in 20 appearances and held batters to a .204/.272/.408 line. He could pitch multiple innings and Bruce Walton mentioned that he could be used on consecutive days without a problem. But he is right-handed and the only lefty sure of a spot in the pen is Darren Oliver.
I think Farrell will want another left-hander in the pen and that's where Luis Perez has an edge. Perez had a 4.27 ERA and held batters to a .283/.351/.424 in 33 relief appearances. Lefties hit him at a .260/.322/.375 rate, including his 4 starts.
I guess it is possible that Alex will try to trade Carlos Villanueva or there might be an injury somewhere along the line and both Perez and Litsch could make the team. I think though that, odds are, it will be one or the other of them. Perez is out of options, Litsch isn't, so Perez has a leg up. I would feel kind of bad for Jesse if he is sent down.
3. Back up infielder, Vizquel, McCoy or Valbuena: With Alex saying that the team will be carrying 2 spare outfielders, there is only room for one backup infielder. I think it is pretty safe to say that if Vizquel makes it through spring training without getting hurt the job is his to lose. McCoy still have an option left and Valbuena, he'd have to prove he can play short to have a shot. I think the team likes the idea of Vizquel giving Escobar some tips at short, not that I think Yunel needs much help at the position, but anyone could learn from Vizquel. And having Omar on the team would give Darren Oliver someone to talk to who also saw the Beatles play on Ed Sullivan.
4. Kyle Drabek: Unless someone gets hurt, I think the Jays are pretty set with Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Alvarez and McGowan as the starting rotation, but it would make everyone feel better if Kyle looked good in his spring training appearances. He'd have to have a pretty amazing spring and one of Alvarez, Cecil or McGowan would have to be awful for him to make the rotation without an injury. I don't care if he does that, but what I'd like is for him to look like a major league pitcher again.
Beyond that there isn't much for compelling storylines. Oh there are a few lesser stories:
- It was great just seeing Dustin McGowan on the mound last year. Something that I really didn't think we'd see again. Now just pitching isn't good enough anymore. He has to show us he can win.
- Colby Rasmus hit just .173 for us last year. I'm sure he'll do better than that, but I'm sure we are all curious to see how he does this spring.
- I hope Brett Cecil doesn't focus on the radar gun at the start of spring.
- And, as with every spring, it will be fun to watch the young guys. Last year I got to see Anthony Gose for the first time. Unfortunately, a trip to Florida isn't in the cards this year, but I'm still interested to see/heard about Drew Hutchison, Deck McGuire, Adeiny Hechavarria, Travis d'Arnaud and several others.
What are you interested in seeing from the Jays this spring?
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disagree regarding Drabek
after some of the interviews I’ve heard on the radio, I’ll be pretty surprised if Alvarez breaks camp over Drabek
Is that just personal opinion
Or because of something that was said in the interviews from Farrell/AA? I have a hard time believing Alvarez doesn’t make it over Drabek unless he’s just lights out this spring
just gut feeling
I like the MLB radio interviews, people are a lot more candid than they normally are. Lot of Drabek tire pumping, and easing of expectations on Alvarez. Jays brass is a lot higher on Drabek than the fanbase.
As they should be
But I doubt Drabek is ahead of Alvarez at this point. Both have options. The best guy should make the team.
Well, yeah
He’s only a year removed from being our #1 prospect with top of the rotation talk, so I’d imagine management is still high on him. Drabek has a higher ceiling, but Hendo actually produced (obligatory SSS disclaimer). I think they have to be sure Drabek will be better for him to break camp, I’m sure they don’t want to keep jerking him around
also got the sense with Alvarez
that they want the third pitch polished..so my thinking is it probably hinges on that.
Disagree about Alvarez
He’s 21, more than proved himself on the mound last year and has nasty, nasty sinker action naturally. I think the 3 top SP’s of the Blue Jays have already been decided: ROMERO, MORROW and ALVAREZ.
IMHO, Cecil, Drabek and McGowan are all going to fight for the remaining 2 spots.
by Marcos Montenegro on Feb 22, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know what to expect from the left field situation. I really like both guys and hope they both can excel, but really it feels like whoever doesn’t make the team will probably end up as a throw in a trade down the line.
Can’t see either being happy being in AAA, both should be at the MLB level proving themselves.
If i was a betting man, my money would be on Thames.
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
thames winning the spot *
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 22, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'll put my money on Snider
I think, in the final analysis, the Jays will decide on Snider, purely because of his better defence.
by BuffaloSojourn on Feb 22, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
A genuine competition
I think it genuinely depends on Spring Training. If Snider isn’t hitting, they’ll tell him to go to LV to work on his swing; if he does hit, Thames will be told to spend some time concentrating on his defence (specifically, his reads and jumps). If both don’t look good at the plate during ST, I haven’t the faintest what they’ll do.
ST gets short thrift from the saber crowd as a good way to evaluate players, but I tend to think that, especially for young players, it’s a good opportunity to gauge if a player’s mechanics are sound, etc.
other than more cowbell
I’d like to see Hechavarria crush the ball thus inciting calls for his immediate induction into the Hall of Fame. On a serious side, I’d like to see him continue to hit well, so we might see him in September.
by voislav on Feb 22, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ask and ye shall receive

You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea.
by Buster Bluth on Feb 23, 2012 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
what i´m hoping to see
is Drabek and McG throwing strikes
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
Why not both?
Is there a strong reason not to bring both Snider and Thames north? I don’t think Thames’ ceiling is so high that you would worry about wasting him on the bench (assuming Snider gets the nod in LF). Plus, you can get him some extra ABs by getting a rotation going with EE at DH.
because you'd rather have davis' speed on the bench
then one of those guys.
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 22, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
If the Jays are carrying 2 bench OFs then you could still make it work
Davis and the loser of the Thames/Snider battle. Francisco goes to AAA. Probably won’t happen because EE likely isn’t platooned at DH and the loser of the Snider/Thames battle would be better served getting regular reps in AAA.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
Agreed but
Franscisco would likely get DFA’ed or traded as opposed to going to AAA.
Davis will be there regardless
But it seems like Francisco may be the 2nd OFer because he’s a righty(?)
I’d rather have the loser of the LF battle over him as well though
The problem with carrying both Thames and Snider
is playing time for the 2 of them. If one of them goes to AAA, then both will be playing everyday in the outfield and at the plate. That isn’t possible if they are both on the ML team.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Feb 22, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
But Thames’ knock is his defense, while Snider needs to prove he can hit major league pitchers. Thames could still work on his defense in AAA, could he not?
I know Snider can work on his swing in the lower levels as well, but that’s just the way I see it
Snider has mashed in AAA every time he's been there
he has nothing more to prove/learn by facing AAA pitching. He needs to be in the MLB.
Thames can work on fielding in Vegas better than Snider can work on hitting, and he has more options.
Please give Snider the PAs
by SuckaMD on Feb 22, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just hope Drabek puts his freaking hat on straight.
No wonder he couldn’t throw a strike to save his life.
by craig in calgary on Feb 22, 2012 1:30 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
You're going to hate Anthony Gose then.
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison
rec'd till the day i die
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 22, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
straight as an arrow

+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 22, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure you are smart enough to figure that out on your own
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 23, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
now that he's on the Yankees
I sincerely hope not
hmm it does look like he wears it straight most of the time
ah well.
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 22, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
If you listened to AA on Fan590 a couple of games ago
It sounded like he was leaning towards Thames. He kept emphasizing how past results will impact his choice more than Spring Training; that Spring Training provides too small a sample to form a decision. I really want Snider to grab the job, but I really don’t think the Jays are going to go in his direction.
but Snider has more of a major-league track record than Thames
he just didn’t have as good a season last year. I’m not sure that statement necessarily means Thames has the edge.
"Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our closed rooms... The game of ball is glorious." - Walt Whitman
I'd say yea
Our Vegas rotation could be better this year, no?
no
I don’t think so because he’s not one of the 10 starters in camp. They might stretch him out when he gets to Vegas, but they’ll use him in the role he’s competing for in Dunedin.
Frankly, I’m not certain they don’t just see him as a reliever and use him as such.
What will EE's role be?
What if he out hits everyone in spring training? What if he can actually play left field? He has decent speed and can throw hard. I could see him being more than an emergency outfielder.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 22, 2012 1:49 PM EST via Android app reply actions
Isn't he supposed to be our primary DH?
If he plays a significant number of games in LF, which imo he shouldn’t, then who would take over the DH duty?
Yea, I'm pretty sure he is penned in as the DH to start the season.
by Playoffs!!!!1 on Feb 22, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Although I wouldn’t mind seeing if EE is better in LF than Thames… Thames can DH if he can’t defend..
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Keep Edwin DH
Let him think about the bat. Only.
For sure he is DH.
How many ABs he gets early on might depend on spring training. If he provide a better defensive value than Thames then yes put him in LF. If Snider is LF that point is moot anyway.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 22, 2012 5:41 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
2012 Pre-season = EDH
2012 Opening Day Surprise = E7
@VagabondBansal
I call the 2012 Opening Day Surprise to be E1
Follow me @Minor_Leaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Feb 22, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
Take that back!
That would not bode well for our pitching staff.
@VagabondBansal
This is a good sign
From the Toronto Sun, it looks like Farrell is not going to repeat errors from last year:
"I’d like to see Kelly Johnson take that (No. 2) spot and run with it," Farrell said…
"Yunel (Escobar) will lead off but I’d like to see Johnson in that two-hole. He’s had years where he was very good at getting on base and to me that’s the most important thing. We need guys that can get on base at a higher rate in front of Bautista, in front of Adam Lind, in front of Brett Lawrie, in front of Edwin Encarnacion."
Speaking of Kelly Johnson
Somebody on the Fan590 today mentioned him as part of a trade rumor: possible trade for a SP…
I don’t get the rationale, unless Valbuena is going to 2B??
"Words ought to be a little wild for they are the assaults of thought on the unthinking." (J.M Keynes)
sounds like baseless rumour to me
Not sure how valuable Johnson would be in a trade right now.
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
You know you're fit when Eric Thames wants your workout plan.
Eric Thames @EThames14
Brett Cecil is a man machine this spring! I want his workout program stat!
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I think you mean Mr. T's biceps
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it already but they had a little piece on Cecil on sportsnet today. Couldn’t see that giant gut he was sporting last season.
2 spring training games televised this year.
so lame, come on 5 channels and they can’t show more than 2 games..I don’t even care if they send the full broadcast crew..just have a couple of cameras showing the game.
MOAR PROSPECTS PLEASE SPORTSNET!!!
by ABsteve on Feb 22, 2012 7:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Just one behind the mound with no commentary. I'd be content.
I don't always have exams, but when I do they are DURING the Jays home opener.
I hate how few games this televise too
At least we will get some numbers to play with.
I really don’t care who wins the battle in LF because I feel both are competent enough, and may the best player win.
The Spring Surprise will be...
Evan the “Lefty” Crawford. Evan will beat our Perez as the “loggy” and Sir Litsch of Pudge for the final spot in the pen.
I guarantee it!
ps There are a series of 32 sub-clauses in the instrument of “Guarantee” only one of which will be made public; Clause 31(a)(b) (4): Notwithstanding the foregoing any claims by the assignee are guaranteed to be either 100% correct or 100% wrong.
Didn't you read the caveat?
@VagabondBansal
we're arguing different things
I do understand that he used the word “guarantee” as a joke. I was only merely correcting the word loogy
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
I know I was just pointing out he was already wrong about something :)
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
by WizardofNaz on Feb 24, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Francisco or Thames....Left Field
AA got Francisco for some reason, and Snider gets hurt early in the season and then is up and down. Maybe he does better starting the year and Vegas where Cito can visit and help him learn to hit curve balls.
Just sayin’ — Thames or Francisco have to really stink for Snider to have a chance
Snider has to be good for him to have a chance
I doubt they’ll trot him out there if he’s still batting very poorly just because those two are worse
Crazy trade thoughts
Ben Francisco makes a fair bit of sense in terms of being able to DH when EE takes first to give Lind some days off against lefties, and the odd start from Snider or Thames against lefties. Davis isn’t a good enough hitter to serve the same function, so he’s really superfluous. Not a good enough defensive player to be highly valuable as a backup for Rasmus, he really doesn’t have much of a role except as a pinch runner. As such, he’s a prime candidate to be traded to anyone (NL team, perhaps, for minimal return) who needs some outfield depth & speed. Such a trade would make sense only if Snider makes the team (Snider would be the backup CF). Thames could be the 5th outfielder in this scenario, and get some starts at DH.
Davis is the backup CF’er as well. Someone needs to give Rasmus days off. If its not Davis the next best options are either Travis Snider in Centre which isn’t good or Mike McCoy. If Rasmus gets hurt and is out for a month we need Davis on this team. Maybe if Gose is hitting in AAA we can move Davis at the deadline as our injury replacement could be Gose, but until then not gunna happen.
Plus Davis is the only real base stealing threat the Jays have and is their main pinch runner.
Kadri Fanboy since 2006
Davis is the backup CF, but his defence wasn’t very good there (or anywhere, really); so I’m not really concerned that Snider in CF will be a real dropoff in defensive value as an occasional fill-in. If Rasmus is out for a month, I don’t have a problem calling up Gose either, or even letting Snider play Centre for a month. His jumps and speed are good enough now – his routes still need some work, but overall I’m comfortable with him playing Centre if need be.
As for being their pinch-runner, I don’t think there’s a tonne of value in that, so I’d be happy to have Thames on the roster instead of Davis.

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