An All-time Bluejays 25-man Roster

by bluejaysstatsgeek on Feb 5, 2012 3:44 PM EST

Tom's post today about adding any single player from the past to the current roster got me thinking about an all-time 25 man roster. I used peak season as my criteria, and constructed the staff as follows: 13 pitchers (5 starters, a swingman, and 7 relievers) and 12 position players (2 catchers, 8 other starters, a 4th outfielder and a utility infielder) which is the way the roster is currently constructed. With a pitching staff as strong as I am able to pick, I'd be inclined to carry fewer pitchers and have a longer bench. On the other hand, with a line-up this strong, how much would you use the bench?

The team, after the jump!

Staring Pitchers:

Name	Position	Throws	Year	ERA+	rWAR
Pat Hentgen	SP	R	1996	156	8.4
Dave Stieb	SP	R	1984	146	7.7
Jimmy Key	SP	L	1987	164	6.6
Roy Halladay	SP	R	2003	145	7.5
Roger Clemens	SP	R	1997	222	10.3

It pains me to include Clemens, but he had the two best seasons ever posted by a Jay.

I have one Swing-man:

Todd Stottlemyre

RP/SP

1991

112

3.8

My bullpen is quite loaded:

Name	Position	Throws	Year	ERA+	rWAR
Tom Henke	CL	R	1987	182	3.4
Duane Ward	SU	R	1992	211	3.2
Mark Eichhorn	RP	R	1986	249	6.4
Scott Downs	RP	L	2008	238	3.0
Jerry Garvin	RP	L	1980	190	2.6
Tony Castillo	RP	L	1994	192	2.4
Paul Quantrill	RP	R	1997	234	3.0

Eichhorn's 1986 surprised me. 6.4 rWAR, 157 IP, NO STARTS!

My position players:

Name	Position	Bats	Year	OPS+	rWAR
Ernie Whitt	C	L	1983	115	3.0
Pat Borders	C2	R	1990	120	2.7
John Olerud	1B	L	1993	186	8.2
Roberto Alomar	2B	S	1992	130	6.4
Tony Fernandez	SS	S	1987	112	5.0
Kelly Gruber	3B	R	1988	113	4.8
Manny Lee	UTIF	S	1992	83	2.8
Jose Bautista	RF	R	2011	181	8.5
Lloyd Moseby	CF	L	1984	127	6.2
Shawn Green	LF	L	1999	143	5.9
Jesse Barfield	4OF	R	1986	145	7.3
Paul Molitor	DH	R	1993	143	5.7

If you think I cheated by moving Green from RF to LF, George Bell's 1987 would be my replacement.

I also debated using Damaso Garcia as the utility infielder - he had more speed in case you need a stolen base late in the game - or John McDonald's 2007 (where he put up 1.8 rWAR which was 100% defense) for a pure defensive replacement able to play 2B, SS and 3B.

There was plenty of choice at first. Olerud's '93 was outstanding, plus his career dWAR was 9.7.

The corner outfielder aren't defensive butchers, but neither are known for their defense. Barfield was the best defensive corner outfielder that was a regular starter. Can you imagine Barfield as the 4th outfielder? from '85 to '88 his dWAR was never below 2.0!

For DH, I restricted my choices to players that primarily DH'd, otherwise, Delgado (2000, 7.6 oWAR) or McGriff (1989, 6.6 WAR) would have been in the running.

We haven't had great season by a catcher. I hope if I revisit this list in 4 or 5 years that Lawrie will have supplanted Gruber off the list and either JPA or Travis d'Arnaud are among the catchers.

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Comments

yeah, Eichhorn's '86 was just crazy

imagine having him as the long man… drool

I tweet.

by benk on Feb 5, 2012 3:54 PM EST reply actions

My dream broadcast crew

Radio: Tom Cheek / Jerry Howarth
TV: Dan Shulman / John Cerruti

Follow me @Minor_Leaguer

by Minor Leaguer on Feb 5, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions

I think Shulman...

…is the best sports broadcaster out of Canada, ever. Sentimentally, I like Tom Cheek the best, but my head says that Shulman is better.

Hugo thinks I'm a lazy academic

by bluejaysstatsgeek on Feb 5, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions

Haha

That’s why I put Shulman as my vote for the one Jay I’d like to see back in his prime.

by Lutherie on Feb 6, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions

Great team

Barfield as a 4th OF speaks to the great players we’ve seen grace the Blue Jay OF.

No one better than Castillo in the Bullpen? I’ve have to think about that one.

by bjewitt16 on Feb 5, 2012 11:17 PM EST reply actions

Yeah, I don't get Green over Barfield

Both were RFs and Barfield had the higher peak season. Barfield’s 1986 season was insane. I’m pretty much fine with the rest except maybe have David Wells over Stottlemyre as the swingman.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 6, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

bullpen has to have 2006 BJ Ryan

4.0 rWAR

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by benk on Feb 5, 2012 11:26 PM EST reply actions

I think

It can’t, because he had already filled the closer role.

by Lutherie on Feb 6, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions

Oh

You mean he should be there instead of Henke.

by Lutherie on Feb 6, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions

yup

just based on peak season anyway

I tweet.

by benk on Feb 6, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

I'd vote for Ryan

If it means he comes with his fire themed Slipknot walkout video. That was the best thing evar!

thisrighthere!

http://www.facebook.com/Bluebirdbanter

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Feb 6, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions

Found a cell phone video of it!

I used to love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_E4UeRteUk

Song and lyrics if your interested and too lazy to do Le Google:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3kvZGWNgos

thisrighthere!

http://www.facebook.com/Bluebirdbanter

by TonyFernandezSavedMyLife on Feb 6, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed, put the Beej in the pen

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 6, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions

I'm surprised Moseby beat out Wells in cf.

by Defense Counts! on Feb 6, 2012 3:55 PM EST reply actions

1990 Gruber

Id take the 1990 Gruber that was his sliver slugger year I believe, so funny that Lawrie could replace him easily this year. Also don’t rule out the 1984 Rance Mulliniks .823 OPS with a .324 avg. no power numbers at all though.

by Gruber17 on Feb 6, 2012 8:53 PM EST reply actions

plus

I’d swap 2010 John Buck for Borders

by Gruber17 on Feb 6, 2012 9:02 PM EST reply actions

Yes, I overlooked a few...

John Buck, 2010 – OPS+ 114, rWAR 2.9 – that’s pretty close to Borders’ ‘90.
Mulliniks, ’84 – His best rWAR year was actually ’85 and only 3.0. 1983 through 1988, his OPS+ was below 124 only once! Because he was in a platoon, he wasn’t able to put up that much WAR.
Ryan, ‘06 – Yup, his ’06 was better than Henke’s best year. Hat tip to benk
Wells 2006 – at OPS+ of 129 and rWAR of 6.7, this is better than Moseby’s ’84 Good Point Defense Counts!

Other comments:
Castillo, ‘94 – that was a 115 game season, which projects to a rWAR of 3.4 over 162 games.
Barfield vs. Green – it wasn’t really Barfield vs Green. Barfield was beat out for RF by Jose Bautista. Looking at LFers, Bell was the best in terms of WAR, but shifting Green to LF seemed to make sense. Barfield had the best RF arm I’ve ever seen and his range could be quite useful in LF but you would give up some of the value of his arm, He could have played CF if not for Moseby. I also liked having Green and Moseby’s lefty bats.

I think the ideal scenario is having 6 guys that play the three OF positions, 1B and DH, which is not how I chose this roster, but this roster could play that way:

Bautista’s day off: Green, Wells, Barfield LF to RF, Olerud 1B, Molitor DH
Olerud’s day off: Barfield, Wells, Bautista LF to RF, Molitor 1B, Green DH
Wells’s day off: Green, Barfield, Bautista LF to RF, Olerud 1B, Molitor DH
Green’s day off: Barfield, Wells, Bautista LF to RF, Olerud 1B, Molitor DH
Barfield’s day off: Green, Wells, Bautista LF to RF, Olerud 1B, Molitor DH
Molitor’s Day off: Bautista, Wells, Barfield LF to RF, Olerud 1B, Green DH

One more thought: Moseby’s range allowed Barfield to play RF instead of CF, but Barfield had great range too. My sense is that with both Bautista, Wells and Barfield in the OF, Barfield plays CF and Wells LF and Bautista RF.

Of course, once you start shuffling players around in the OF, WAR changes due to different positional adjustments. CF is +0.5 and the corners are -0.5

Hugo thinks I'm a lazy academic

by bluejaysstatsgeek on Feb 7, 2012 1:18 AM EST reply actions

Mind you

If you are going to shift Green to LF, I’d say swapping Castillo for the Beej should be allowable too.

by siggian on Feb 7, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions

Delgado has to make the team somewhere.

I just can’t see how the best position player we ever developed doesn’t make an all-time BlueJays 25 man roster, even as a reserve.

Carlos’s 2000 or 2003 needs to be on there somewhere.

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Feb 7, 2012 9:54 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

good point

statsgeek noted the difficulties in moving players around the diamond for this thought experiment, but Delgado 2000/2003 would probably be the best DH on this team

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by benk on Feb 7, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

And 2 days in, I’m shocked I’m the first person to mention Carlos!

Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

by Jevant on Feb 7, 2012 9:55 AM EST reply actions

Ace?

We all agree that Roger had the best pitching season ever as a Jay. However we all agree he had some “help”? With that said who is your ace? A 1984 Dave Steib or the good Doctor of 2003? Better yet Game 7 World Series, you have a rested Dave Steib and a rested Doc? Who you pick an emotional Dave Steib with his sick Slider or the day in day out bet your paycheck Halladay? Both will go deep? Remember that at the time of their peak season both Steib and Halladay had no post season experience.

by Gruber17 on Feb 7, 2012 8:57 PM EST reply actions

apples to apples?

One thing we need think about is that everyone who played before 1989 played there home games in Exhibition Stadium. From what I can remember this was an unfriendly hitter park. Windy, Cold with seagulls flying everywhere. Imagine putting a 1987 George Bell in a comfy climate controlled SkyDome?

by Gruber17 on Feb 7, 2012 9:28 PM EST reply actions