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One of the many reasons criticism of Rogers Communications, the owner of the Blue Jays, for being stingy with free agents is so ignorant is that the club has spent aggressively in the amateur markets during the past three years, grabbing high-ceiling high school players and Latin American prospects by stockpiling picks and paying whatever it took to sign those players. They are the organization most likely to be No. 1 on this list next winter.

4 months ago Rincewind-1_tiny Tom Dakers 51 comments 2 recs  | 

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Love it.

Are you allowed to post any more than that for readers who don’t have an insider account?

by HDave on Feb 8, 2012 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Guns AND Butter!

In all seriousness, I’ve thought the Jays would probably take another leap forward next year, simply because barring a bunch of unforeseen injuries or other circumstances, we’re unlikely to lose more than 1 or 2 prospects to graduation, and have a bunch of youngsters take more steps forward (and some will also go backwards).

It’s impressive we more or less held the position we did, considering the system graduated a number of the top guys – Lawrie, Arencibia, Drabek (who was the consensus #1 prospect), Alvarez, Thames and traded away Stewart. That’s or say the top 10 or 15, yet other guys stepped up. Very, very encouraging.

by MjwW on Feb 8, 2012 3:00 PM EST reply actions  

We also traded away Molina.

Need a new signature? Why not Zoidberg?

by dannyofbosnia on Feb 8, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt Law had him rated very high though

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 8, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably around 15-20th

Which would mean 7 of the top 20 were either traded or promoted.

by Playoffs!!!!1 on Feb 8, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

mmm

guns and butter. gotta love that PPF

by benk on Feb 9, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions  

no matter how much butter you put on guns, they still taste like guns

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 9, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree with that

But I think the more accurately described criticism is really that since the new CBA doesn’t allow for paying a premium to sign high-end talent with the new slotting system and penalties for going over (at least, not to the extent that has been possible for the Jays in the past), free agency is more important going forward.

Isn’t that really the criticism, such as it is?

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

by Raist on Feb 8, 2012 4:21 PM EST reply actions  

To Raist

Your forgetting that the new CBA doesn’t cover off signings of foreign high school and free agent (generally Cuban) players.
So the Jays can still chase those…

by Paul Chicago on Feb 9, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Blue Jays System 3rd

Perhaps 2012 MLB is poor with regards to farm systems. I do not think the farm system will contribute to the 2012 Jays . Alvarez and Lawrie were huge additions last year, but is that to be anticipated this year? We traded Nestor Molina, our best prospect, for a closer???

2013 we might have some further expectations with starters and Gose. d’Arnaud might outplay Arencibia this year, but our we to hope that Drabek/Cecil/McGowen has figured it out? Crap to me. Glad we have an above average closer- we were statistically above average last year.

by bluenose bluebird on Feb 8, 2012 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

Molina

Wasn’t our top prospect. And I guarantee you didn’t see Alvarez coming so quick.

I play in a band too.
www.chasingmercury.ca

by Lutherie on Feb 8, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Molina was definitely not the best prospect. He was 4 or 5 at best

by munniec on Feb 8, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

We traded one of 7-8 pitchers who were all ranked around the same level by a lot of evaluators

2 of them are in AA, McGuire and Hutchinson, plus Jenkins is right there with them too. It is extremely likely that 2 of them start games for the Jays at some point this season. I mean, yes, Molina was a very good prospect who would be right there with McGuire and Hutch, but it’s not like we traded all of our pitching depth for a “closer” (note: your disdain for the position seems to be clouding your assessment of Santos, who is a very good pitcher under team control for 6 years with an affordable contract).

As for the hitters, you are right that it is unlikely we get a major contribution from anyone this year. However, we will likely see Hech, Gose, and d’Arnaud in September. I agree that there is no instant gratification likely for this year.

by Playoffs!!!!1 on Feb 9, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

September callup? I'd say that's likely when rosters expand

At the very least he can be a defensive replacement, get a taste for the Show.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 9, 2012 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

if he's OPSing .650 in PCL?

I don’t think so, but I could be wrong

by benk on Feb 9, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

He probably would have had a callup this year if it wasn't for the visa issues

The glove will play at the big league level and September is just for giving the kids a taste of the big leagues. Do you think he could hit worse than Johnny Mac? I’m thinking he’s a backup infielder at the very least at the MLB level.

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 9, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

They are going to have to call him up sometime

He’s going to be running out of options soon and we paid a fair bit of money for him.

I blog, therefore I am.

by Tom Dakers on Feb 9, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

But, but I thought Rogers was cheap!!

Hic sunt fortuna dracones
There is only 1 "n" in Hutchison

by JaysfanDL on Feb 9, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

SSS alert

He mashed .968 in 116 PAs in the PCL!

Obviously that was late in the season after callups so inferior competition, but I’m holding out hope he turned the corner!

by Siver on Feb 9, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

on the back of a .471 BABIP

I hope it signifies something real and not just blind luck, but I’ll wait until 2012

by benk on Feb 9, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Anybody have any idea how many ABs it takes for BABIP to normalize?

by Siver on Feb 9, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

well over.

though he also improved his walk-rate a good bit over what it had been at AA.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/when-samples-become-reliable/

Someone might want to re-update that study (and go to more than 650 plate appearances)

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Feb 10, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

struck out more too

his K:BB ratio was better in AAA, but not tremendously so

by benk on Feb 10, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

sure enough

though I think the uptick in BB-rate (~2%) and ISO (~.035), more than offset the increase in K-rate (~2.5%).

"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"

by jessef on Feb 10, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Even then, I would be completely shocked if he wasn't

As past examples, I point to Jeroloman (OPS of .631) last year for the Jays, and Iglesias of Boston, (OPS of .554) who got September call-ups from AAA but very little in the way of ABs. I do think that if Hech is OPS’ing .650 in the PCL at the end of the AAA season that he will be called up but get very limited playing time.

by Playoffs!!!!1 on Feb 9, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Apparently Jeroloman was hurt.

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 9, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Travis D'Arnaud

Keith Law has him ranked 6th on his top 100 list

by Marc Henderson on Feb 9, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

cough cough

hoping for someone to post that list, also

by hoph on Feb 9, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

whatever

one of the things that “experts” like law forget when they adopt a supercilious attitude towards fans that may have actually looked at the new cba and interpolated its impact on the jays’ recent strategies is that the jays’ #1 position (which is subjective to begin with) is likely to fade as they remain a middling team with no “comeptitive balance” draft picks in the future.

by soupman on Feb 9, 2012 5:45 PM EST reply actions  

1) I highly doubt that “experts like Law” are ignoring the CBA and its effects, and it’s pretty dubious to imply they’re gnorant/stupid
2) Beyond the CBA impact inpact int the future, it doesn’t change that fact that next year at this time, the Jays figure to have a ton of minor league talent – these are measures at agiven moment in time, so I’m not sure how your criticism is even relevant to the exercise Law and others are undertaking

by MjwW on Feb 9, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It's just rAAge

In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.

by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 9, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

it’s an ad hominem directed at people like law and wilner who are perpetually a step behind the curve in terms of advanced thinking. michael lewis upbraided law, and then law said something like: ‘oh i’ve changed so much since 2003’…really, with comments like the one above, it is clear he hasn’t. let’s not forget that, in spite of his claims that he was in favour of tulo, he was an integral part of the JPR regime that basically created the terrible farm system AA inherited. at the time they were doing the hip new thing, but of course, it wasn’t them acting as the trendsetters…

it seems to me that the more things “change” the more they stay the same. as an aside, it is nice to see that supposed jays fans think that any time someone actually questions the status quo (as new and shiny a status quo it may be) that they are “raging”, “ignorant” or some other slew of pejoratives.

also, it’s evident that the jays aren’t “doing everything to sign picks” otherwise tyler beede would be heading to dunedin in a week’s time. look, i really don’t care to debate this.

there’s a saying in this business, those who can – DO; those who can’t – go into journalism.

by soupman on Feb 9, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

You're entitled to your opinion

Just don’t think for a minute that it’s objectively right, or that you know way more than these guys. I don’t know what you mean by “in this business”, but I highly doubt you’re in the baseball/baseball prospect business. You’re entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts, so in vein here are a few:

1) Law was hired by the Jays as a stats guy, not a scout/someone in the scouting department. This is what he meant by I’ve changed, in that he knew very little about scouting at the time of Moneyball.
2) I don’t know how integral he was to the JPR regime, but he certainly wasn’t integral to the drafting side in 2005 when Tulo was passed over. That was a decision made by the GM and the Scouting Director.
3) Law was gone in 2006, so he had absolutely nothing to do with the last 3.5 years of the the JPR regime when the drafting was more iffy.
4) I, and most commenters around here are pretty open to solid, factual arguments, even if they go against the status quo. But that’s not what you presented.
5) I don’t know what Wilner has to do with this, at all. He’s not an expert on minor league talent evaluation, and has never claimed to be as far as I know.

If you really don’t care to debate this, than don’t respond in the first place.

by MjwW on Feb 9, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

So you are saying...

That AA, who managed to figure out several ways to game the previous CBA, won’t be smart enough to figure out ways to game the new CBA?

by siggian on Feb 9, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

when did i claim to be objectively right? what you’re arguing is that your facts are somehow better than my facts.
1) it’s well known that law was anti-scouting. jonah hill’s character is a composite of law and others like him, “experts” in name only. his simpering rant on the moneyball film elicited honest criticism. perhaps the film cut too close to the quick…? if you return to lewis’ original missive, i think you’ll find that law was quite opinionated at the time on subjects (read: scouting) about which he knew little, and likely still does not (since…well, you know…he was never a player)
2)Law was one of the people in the room when the decision went down. he’s talked about it. he was there, and that’s why he knows it was JPR’s call against almost everyone else in the room. it’s not like he was some nobody if he was in the war room on draft day. he was by that time the “special assistant to the GM”.
3)the drafting was always “iffy” – JPR told scouts to never go to a high school game ever. from day one. look at the list of top prospects this year. guys drafted 2 years ago are still 1-3 years away from debuting. that AA has cobbled together a team that includes guys from that period from other teams like MOrrow, rasmus, and escobar is quite a feat imo. if anything, taking snider in 2006 was the first time JPR did anything right, and coincidently (perhaps) that was less than a week after law was handed his walking papers. it doesn’t seem unreasonable to suspect that his dismissal and the new draft strategy were less coincidental than you or i might guess.
4)it’s a factual argument, you just don’t like the facts that i present. of course, at some level it is ‘subjective’ or “opinion” – ultimately all facts are social constructions, that doesn’t mean they’re just “made up” or not based on real, or mere opinions. really, this is how ALL SCIENCE works, iirc.
5) what credentials does keith law possess? how is he an “expert”? what measures do you have to indicate he is a successful talent evaluator or scout? in the factual column, there is: he was fired from his only job with a pro-team. at this point he is a journalist, like wilner, perhaps more versed in applying metrics, but a journalist nonetheless. what proof does he have that he’s good at his job? that if it were up to him and wilner bautista probably would have been DFA’d in the 2009 offseason to make room for randy ruiz? that he woudln’t have handed bautista a contract last offseason because he was a statistical abberation? he’s just a guy. he’s a notorious prick, and i’m sick of the cult surrounding his opinions.

these lists might as well be “top 10 albums of 2012” before you hear the new songs. it’s great to get excited about this stuff, but making a list is just a way to sell copy…it rarely has any correlation to any sort of meaningful projection. show me a projection system that can predict accurately a large sample of high school pitchers and their development curve. show me a half decent defensive metric that takes into account the other fielders playing, or the pitch-by-pitch positioning…obviously some facts are better than others, obviously analysis by lay-people is much more advanced than 20 years ago, but there is such a long long long way to go, and those that simply enjoy the game, or who understand that simple fact that: better players cost more money, and help win. that’s why, for example, teams like the yankees both do all the stuff the jays have been doing AND run the highest payroll every single year. calling out people that think the jays might want to start doing what the yankees and red sox do, seems silly since their MO is otherwise to “join them” in the draft/IFA/trade world…maybe they’ll eventually beat them, but it won’t be because they’re smarter, more sly, or out-scout them, it will be because a) they get lucky with some guys becoming extremely good, b) they continue to pay to retain the most talented players.

the point isn’t to be “objectively right” – but to a) make choices/decisions and b) take responsibility for them. writing a blog or whatever is a good way to have opinions that no one ever holds you to account for. if you’re entertained by klaw, that’s great. he isn’t a moron, but he’s a jerk, and that is enough to evoke the troll in me.

by soupman on Feb 9, 2012 8:16 PM EST reply actions  

Actually, what I took issue with was that you didn’t present many facts, just a vendetta that had nothing to do with what was said. You said that the Jays are “likely to fade as they remain a middling team with no "comeptitive balance" draft picks in the future.”. The only fact in there was that there will be no competitive balance picks. The rest was just your opinion of Keith Law, whom you don’t like, and that’s fine, you’re entitled. But it has nothing to do with his rankings this year and little to with the ranking next year. To respond to your points:

1) I’ll concede he was pretty ignorant of the value of scouting at the time, as he himself admitted. That has nothing to do with what he now knows, there having been 10 intervening years. And last I checked, talent evaluators didn’t have to be players in order to be good at their jobs. Last I checked, a number of successful GMs weren’t players…Epstein, Josh Daniels, Friedman, AA. So that’s an incorrect assertion.
2) You basically prove my point for me – the GM made the ultimate decision. I don’t know exactly what his responsibilities were, but I doubt he was highly involved in the drafting strategy – that came right from JP and what they did in Oakland.
3) I’ll be the first to critcize the approach in the early Riccardi years – never considering high schoolers, etc. It was awful. But results-wise, there were a number fo good players draftedin the first 3 years while college players were still somewhat undervalued – Hill (2003), Marcum (2003), Lind (2004), Janssen (2004), Romero (2005). As for the speculation that Law’s dismissal was repsonsible for the Jays going back to high schools, that’s laughable. The GM is responsible for decisions like that. And after 2006-07, the Jays went right back ot college heavy picks at the top in 2008 (Cooper) and 2009 (Jenkins).
4) As I said above, there were no facts. This latest response actually has a few. I worry about the implications of the new CBA as well, but I disagree th Jays are doomed. In the end, Toronto is a big market that has supported a quality team before (80s and early 90s). Also, we’ve built a core of talent, But importantly, we’ve got a good front office that has proven itself able to find value in their picks, which will be very important going forward. Look at a team like St. louis, who never busted slot the way other did, never picked high, yet consistently find good players and has a productive far system. That’s the model. Money counts, but it’s not destiny either.
5) He’s an expert in that he’s paid by a prominent publication to devote his time to minor league talent evaluation, has worked in a front office, etc. This isn’t something where you go to school and gain credentials. On the other hand, I don;t take his word as gospel, and no one should for anyone. I mix the opinions with other sources, to form a broader picture. It’s pretty clear you don’t like the guy, that’s fine. And if the prupose was just to launch an ad honimeum attack, as you acknowledged above, just say so in the first and I’ll just ingore what you have to say because it’s there’s no point even debating facts.

by MjwW on Feb 9, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

really, all this boils down to is:
are jays fans who have been critical of spending this offseason “ignorant” or is there some evidence to suggest that they have a point?

the issue i initially took was with Law’s flip suggestion that the first is the only meaningful position. it’s the same teleological “you build a winner THIS way” story that we hear a million times UNTIL a new model exists. The A’s were the “model” of how to build a winner last decade, and I guess the Rangers are supposed to be the proto-type franchise this year…or is it the Rays? anyway, the issue i have with law (which isn’t personal) is the suggestion that the jays are doing “all” they can at the moment.

the reason i take issue is that anyone that disagrees is labelled “ignorant” – so why would anyone want to engage seriously with someone who has, at the outset of the discussion, told their opponent that they think they are, at best: mis-informed, and more likely: stupid.

are the jays better with fielder at first instead of lind/e5? i tend to believe so based on their track records/projections. is fielder “worth” $200million? Probably not, but the tigers know that, but they aren’t spending to get value/marginal"win", they’re spending to go for a WS.

the teams that i think the jays would do well to ‘model’ themselves after are two in their own division. teams that spend every year regardless of whether they made the playoffs or not. BOS and NYY, of course. of all the teams in pro sports, they have the warchest to do it. i think many jays fans PRESUME “when the time is right” they will, but why wait? their rivals…well, rivals is an unfair term because i don’t think anyone in BOS or NYY care about the Jays unless they’re getting cheap tickets to watch their teams beat them at the dome – but i digress…they don’t wait for the right time, they spend.

i’m so happy to see the jays spending the past 2 years in development areas, but i’d be lying if i said that the CBA will drastically impact the ability of a large-market team, with rich owners to continue to behave like a small- or mid- market team that is looking to build from below. at the end of the day, to me, the strategy that makes most sense is to build from below and to add elite talent where and whenever possible. if that means that the team bankrupts itself…well, you don’t want that, but, the supposed benefit of a rich ownership is that such worries should be left to the Rays and other pauperized teams, for better or worse.

as for st louis, they were fortunate to get Pujols – possibly the best RH hitter ever – in the 15th round (or whenever it was) for almost nothing. they owe much of their success to what, to me, is a combination of a) luck and b) scouting their backyard. even then, if he was such a slam dunk, no team would ever let hundreds of guys go ahead of a player of that stature.

anyway, this is the shape of the argument i made:
beacuse [i believe the jays would have been a better team in 2012 and beyond with fielder and/or darvish, and that rogers could weather the cost of one or both busting hard (which i think is unlikely with prince) and their WAY inflated salaries.]
i think law’s statement is just a troll, so i will troll him (and his supporters) right back.

…that probably would have been more clear if i didn’t omit/bracket my belief/assumption, or was clear with my intent. but, that’s just how i do things.

by soupman on Feb 10, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, at the outset, I agree with Law’s conclusions, though I agree, the use of the word ignorant is somewhat over the top and hyperbolic. That said, I acknowledge that my way of looking at things isn’t the only way, and I understand the frustrations of those who wanted to see some premium players brought in. That said, I don’t think you should lump everyone who agrees with Law’s view in with him, and “troll him and his supporters right back” – it’s not constructive.

Anyway, my personal view is that the Yankees, Red Sox and their fellow big market brethen can make that a viable strategy, but it doesn’t work for building mid-market teams. Taking a few examples, Texas built a homegrown core, before adding to it with some splashes like Darvish, and it took the Daniels regime about 4 years to build the core into a contending team. Ditto the Friedman Rays, though they’ve had very fortuitous drafting results (luck or skill is another debate). Similarly, the Phillies did the same thing in building a core around homegrown players in Howard, Utley, Rollins, Hamels, and as that team got better payroll increased to where it is now. Going back a little further, Houston did the same thing to build a decade of good teams around Biggio, Bagwell, Oswalt, Berkman, etc and added FA pieces around them. Even the Yankeesneeded the homegrown core to really dominate – they have had the highest or near highest payrolls for most of the time since 1980, but the truly dominant period coincided with having excellent homegrown players in their primes.

And if we go back a little firther, we hit the Jays of the 80s and early 90s – a solid homegrown core, that got good (85) allowing for higher payroll to keep them together, and evetually the upper echelon of payrolls in the early 90s. But the point is, they built to that. They didn’t chase big FAs until the core was built and established. I see a similar thing for Toronto, and if fact a lot of the young talent is in the low minors with 2013-16 ETAs – that’s when I see the Jays really, really getting good. Incidently, that coincides with the 4 year window seen in Texas and Tampa.

Ultimately, I understand the tempation to go after big pieces. But if you look at the way sucessful mid-market teams build for long-term success, it’s not through FAs to get them to contention, it’s FAs to push them over the top once the revenues have rose. And this is the point Law was trying to make, perhaps crudely – the money spent on buying wins in the free agent market doesn;t have a big payoff at this point, compared to investing in IFA and the draft (while you still can) in order to get a much higher expected payroll in the future. You say Rogers is rich and we shouldn’t worry about their finances, but they’re a corporation whose job it is to make profits, so I think it’s naive to think the bottom line should be ignored. It’s nice dream, but it’s not going to happen. The good news is, the more people watch and go to games, the more profitable it is to Rogers, so if the team gets to be a point where it can contend, the money should be there to support a higher payroll.

by MjwW on Feb 10, 2012 4:17 AM EST up reply actions  

in the 80s the spread between the top spenders and the lowest spenders, from what i’ve seen, never really exceeded 3x the lowest payroll. The indians might have run a really low payroll, but the marlins did that a few years back where they spent something like 1/10 (or less) on payroll as what the Yankees did. Generally though, since the Jays started spending and FA contracts shot up (around ‘90-’91) the spread has gone from ~3x to ~5×. Spending has changedsince 1985 through the league.

The bigger problem, is that the Jays are in a division with 3 teams that are better than them. One of those teams will eventually have to go back to being terrible in order to accrue more elite talent from the draft. It’s just a simple fact that the higher you draft, the more likely you are to reliably get superstars. Right now, the Rays wouldn’t be half of what they are without Longoria (#3 overall) and Price (#1). The Jays, like the Yankees and Red Sox, are probably never going to be that bad unless a new GM comes in a “blows it up”. I don’t think AA’s job is on the line atm though.

So, to me, the real question is: how do the Jays “sustainably” beat the Yankees and Red Sox? Part 1 of doing that is just what they’ve done: build a better farm system that is really really deep. Part 2, however, is that they plug their holes with ELITE talent available through Free Agency and/or trade. Obviously AA prefers trading, but at some point, he’s going to have to think ‘this is a real core capable of going all the way’. i think a lot of fans thought this was that year. but maybe they are less high on guys like lawrie and rasmus, etc. than most fans. a slow build is fine, if frustrating for those that expect more than anouther ~.500 season.

if rogers wants to limit the losses they take, that’s fine. but i don’t fault anyone for being frustrated when there are models (yankees, red sox, early 90s Jays) that indicate that filling the ‘dome each year, and spending on players is a good way to make money. i suspect that the profits are actually better when teams like the pirates and jays “know their roles” – the bottom feeder can still make money, and so can the mediocre city with tons of seats for out-of-city fans to come enjoy a nice baseball vacation against a non-terrible team. it’s really hard to speculate without seeing the #s, and rogers’ financials are a mess. based on those that leaked from mlb last year though, my gut says that it’s not too far from the truth. that’s why fans of a team with the richest owners, who are not in any way in jeopardy of breaking the bank, might do well to pressure the team to do more to take risks on players and keep taking them. there’s no reason for the jays to ever enter a “rebuild” phase, asides from the fact that even guys like Halladay who were loyal to the team eventually might get fed up with Rogers and the way the team is run.

AA never “blew up” the team, he was just handed a bare cupboard, an all-world-ace that wanted out, and an aging centre-fielder with a bad contract. I thought the Jays would spend a year or two behind the O’s in the standings. but they didn’t, and i doubt they will in the near future. that’s to his credit.

of course not everyone agreeing with law is out to lunch, but law is a polarizing figure. using words like “ignorant” is…well…ignorant of a complex situation. it’s no different than saying “law and those who agree with him are corporate apologists” – another blanket statement which does little to reveal the complexity of what is really going on. in my original post i never used any of those attacks on him, or any people, i said that “what he forgets” as in “his statement about ignorant fans/others should be modified by weighting the future impact of the new CBA more heavily”. I don’t think that’s a bad statement, it was only after that, i see now, that i started the personal attacks. heh.

by soupman on Feb 10, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

CBA
but i’d be lying if i said that the CBA will drastically impact the ability of a large-market team…

I think there’s evidence that the new CBA has drastically impacted the ability of a large-market team. The two teams with the generally highest payrolls are not behaving like they have over the past decade. Despite having obvious holes in their lineup, neither team has signed high-profile and expensive players. To me, this change in behavior corresponding with the signing of the new CBA is not coincidence.

Now, that’s not to say that the Yankees and Red Sox can’t return to their previous ways. They certainly have the financial means to do so. However, I also think that the owners are similar to the other owners in baseball. They will tolerate short term losses but won’t do so long term. The new CBA threatens their profits long term.

by siggian on Feb 10, 2012 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

“that doesn’t mean they’re just "made up", *not ‘real’, or mere opinions. really, this is how ALL SCIENCE works, iirc.

by soupman on Feb 9, 2012 8:19 PM EST reply actions  

Please use the “reply” button to direct your reply to a specific comment when you want write a rebuttle. It just keeps things more organized and more easy to read. Thanks and welcome to Bluebird Banter!

Follow me @Minor_Leaguer

by Minor Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

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