The Reply Fail Discussion Thread
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 9:59 PM EST
Email
PrintTHIS IS MY FIRST FANPOST, PLEASE BE NICE!
If you aren't on the following list, you can ignore this post.
MjwW, Woodman, Rugged Rock, Pikachu, dannyofbosnia, yleviticus, Monstour, hansdampf, Aidin, boltspeedman, Damaso, STZ513, Beer Leaguer, Lutherie, jays182, bluejays13, Rhinos, FanInJapan, EthanDR
The waiting list, in order: Joffrey's Loop Hole, jaysfan101 (who, apparently, is not the same person as jaysfan100), HESS2479, jaysfan100 (who, apparently, is not the same person as jaysfan101), Vagabond13
Feb 9
THE POOL IS LIVE. Check your emails.
Future stuff now goes at the top, because that makes more sense.
With a 10-0 vote, it's official, we're a keeper league. Go forth and discuss the keeper rules. I would advise starting from my suggestion and discussing tweaks, unless someone has a completely different idea.
Current vote progress: Auction 9 - Snake 4; Roto 7 - H2H 4 - Other (a hybrid of some sort and/or more value-related)
I now have email addresses for all 20 people. Hooray!
--------------------
Feb 8
So as to reduce the clutter in the other post, we're now using this one for all league-related discussions. Ideally we'll use this thread throughout the year for all discussions that are ill-suited for the Yahoo(!) message board system, so it's worth bookmarking.
The first order of business is to vote on a couple of the league settings. We'll be voting by +1s since recs and embedded polls make it impossible to ensure that only league members vote. At minimum we need to decide on: Auction draft vs snake draft, rotisserie vs head to head, and the league name. Again, just vote with a +1 - like the prospect lists, discussion areas will follow. I'm sure more issues will arise when the league is actually created, which is why it'll be useful to have this post for use throughout the season.
229 comments
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Comments
Auction Draft vs Snake Draft
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:00 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Auction
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hereby rescind my vote until further notice
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
+1
Auction fo shizzle
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 1:10 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I Hate them
But I’m switching my vote to auction. They actually go a lot faster, IMO, than snake. So +1 for me here.
Snake
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Snake
Just because Auction drafts take forever, and I am not sure that I can commit 4 hours to a draft. If that is how it goes, I will try; but if someone can’t make the snake draft at least they can pre-rank players.
I can usually make myself availalbe for 2 hours of snake; but 4 hours is a bit more difficult…
now this is an argument!
now jays182, Gerse, and hansdamf rechange your minds quick!
I am the Walrus
I agree with it entirely
But, as was discussed above, with this many people, if you’re down in the 15-20 range, you’re pretty well screwed.
So, I’m torn
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Thats the main issue
if a 1st round pick costs everyone the same keeper value, it’s kind of unfair to have such a wide spread in talent in a round where everyone should be a dead certainty
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
A thought
Is there some sort of way to auction drafting spots? Ie, say that certain spots are less desirable, and others more desirable. Those that accept less desirable spots get some sort of adducement (an extra pick at some point?). Something like that. Maybe it’s too compicated but, could it solve the dilemma?
Don't know if you could do that on Yahoo
Unless Commish entered all players himself and the draft was done on Skype or something.
The only benefit that Yahoo(!) gives low pickers is waiver priority, and that obviously disappears as soon as they make a claim.
I suppose we could allow people to “draft” their 2013 draft slots, with the last pick getting first choice and so on, but that’s not really an immediate enough benefit, and it ensures people with picks in the middle always stay in the middle, which is no fun.
Going from your initial idea, once I set up the league and we decide on the scoring, we can assign point bonuses to each pick (the curve would have to be exponential), and let people choose them beforehand. Unfortunately, this is almost guaranteed to turn into a total clusterduck.
Reply Fail
Another possibility
In conjunction with my round+1 or round+2 idea below, we can make it so that once the increase in round causes the lost pick to go beyond the 1st round, the play has to be released back into the wild.
Alternatively keepers could be limited by age, number of seasons held, enjoyment of chocolate pudding, whatever else we want
Reply Fail
According to ESPN preseason rankings
1st overall gets: Cabrera, Konerko, (eliminating Ryan Braun b/c of the potential suspension) and Matt Holiday
10th: Halladay, David Price and Matt Cain
20th overall gets: Granderson, Felix Hernandez and Shane Victorino.
A lot would have to do with scoring, roto, and keeper; but which team would you rather have? I don’t think it matters really and draft strategy has a lot to do with it.
It generally comes down
to the bottom of the draft anyway or injuries;call-ups; break out seasons.
That said, I really want to do an Auction; it would all depend on my work/sports/parenting committments that I would have to sneak out of…and probably have to spend a night sleeping on the couch downstairs as my wife complains on entering yet another draft that won’t make me money. Though my money drafts haven’t gone well the last couple years; so I get in S*** for that as well.
And I would want the 10th pick
But only because I value (overvalue?) pitching and not as high on Granderson to repeat his season last year.
But I think there are still top players to be had if I got stuck with 20th overall.
IMO
I think snake take longer. The auctions moved faster and were more engaging. I’m not a fan of them either, but I’m curious to see how it goes.
an auction draft puts all the players on the same footing
In a snake draft, the person who gets the 20th pick has no chance to get the truly elite (top 5~10) players. You’re forced to pick whatever players that are left on the board.
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
At what time
Would the auction draft take place? I’m +1 GMT, so 6 hours ahead of EST. As such, there would be various starting times that would render it impossible for me to participate.
And to that I would also want to add “what happens if I don’t participate in the auction?”
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
Good point
Here, me too. I guess a weekend draft and then if possible not at a time later than 5 or 6 pm EST (depending on the day of the weekend, though; and taking into account how long a 20-member-league draft will take)?!
"They had players who had more hair on their backs than on their heads. Obviously they have more experience," Thomas Müller of Bayern Munich after losing against Inter Milan.
according to my research, the computer bids for you (possibly based on pre-draft rankings?)
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110330113457AAZMTZK
Reply Fail
My brother did that for a draft her ran
It turned out horribly. We went back to snake draft.
Everyone would need to be there for auction to work. Still possible, and if everyone could make it to the start, then worst case is the computer fills out your team for you when you leave.
Just an idea
Maybe someone could pick a weekend, post various start times on different days of that weekend, and see which slots most people can be reasonably assured they’ll be available in?
Roto vs Head to Head
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:00 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
+1
H2H seem more competitive to me.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Isn't Roto easier to maintain than H2H?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 8, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Don't you have to set the lineups?
Never done a H2H league.
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Okay. That's better.
I’m neutral then. I’ll go roto or H2H
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 8, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Nope, thats determined by daily or weekly rosters
the choice exists with any type of league.
We’re doing weekly.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
+1
I love H2H, I do, but I really want to go roto with this.
Doesn't matter to me
I am not a big fan of Roto; I did like the attempt Masterkembo made for the points based draft the last few years (though last year was the only time I was in it).
Probably with H2H is that it is mostly counting stats. Depends how the H2H points were set up.
I haven't been in his leagues
explain?
Did you guys agree to point values for stat category and then make it H2H in total weekly points (like it is for NFL pools) rather than individual categories?
I have no problem running that, if thats what the people want
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Pikachu help me out
He tried to make it sabermatic based stats. It kind of worked.
Advanced stats guys like you, MjwW and Pikachu would have to take the lead on this; as I don’t trust myself to give the explanation justice.
Pikachu?? What did you think?
by Rhinos on Feb 9, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah it was great
Pitching points were FIP-based by counting HRs, BBs and Ks.
Blogging about the Toronto Blue Jays at Bluebird Banter
League Name
Obviously if you are suggesting a name, use words. If you like a name, +1 it.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:01 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I like this
let this be the name. “We need a discussion part for this, and a submission part.”
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
by Pikachu on Feb 8, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bluebird Bondage
"And I'm like forget Yuuuuuu"
by jays182 on Feb 9, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
I like “Reply Fail” as a league name
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
use titles for pictures please!
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 9, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
You should have copied that picture and used it with your comment. Would have worked
I don't always have exams, but when I do they are DURING the Jays home opener.
The Men In White
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 9, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The time of ascension is upon us!
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 1:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
+1
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 9, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Keeper vs Redraft
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:02 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Keeper
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Keeper
But let’s make it clear how many players kept per year.
Suggestion: 4 keepers per year, but you can only keep said player for a maximum of 3 seasons.
Discussion
If we go with keeper, we need to figure out the rules for which draft picks you give up in subsequent years.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
by Gerse on Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What About
You keep a standard 13 players. We’ll call them protection slots, which can be traded. You can keep all of the rookies you want, but you lose a draft pick starting in the last round of the draft and working backwards. There should be 3 supplemental drafts held, with one in May, July and Sep.
Out of curiousity
Why three supplemental drafts? I understand having one after the draft, and maybe even in the offseason when the season’s over, but why three of them in-season? (never done keeper before, so apologize for the naivety)
My thinking
is that you do 1 supp round a month into the season to fill holes. 1 supp round after the amateur draft for obvious reasons. and 1 supp round after the sept call-ups.
Don't get me wrong
I think it’d be a lot of fun to have somewhat transient teams, but Yahoo(!) doesn’t allow for mid-season drafts. Plus, I don’t think it’ll be easy to get 20 people to agree on one draft date+time, let alone four.
Reply Fail
Theres a difference between a keeper and a dynasty league
Or, at least dynasty leagues are a subset of keeper leagues.
I’m not sure Yahoo(!)‘s system is intelligent enough to allow 40 man rosters and I don’t think they have non-MLB-likely prospects, so 13 keepers is likely too many. Also, Yahoo(!) doesn’t allow for drafts mid-season, so that’d have to be done through this post and the I’d have to input the results manually.
Seeing as there are so many people in the pool, I think 1 or 2 keepers is reasonable, 3 at the very most. If we go with 3, I think you should be limited to no more than 2 of either position (ie hitter or pitcher). To add some incentive to expand the player pool, I’d say you should lose something like 120% of the player’s previous season auction value from next year’s auction budget. This value would compound over the years (assuming that we keep this running for more than a season or two), eventually all but forcing you to throw players back into the draft pool. Traded players would be valued based on their original cost, and waiver pickups would have a fixed value of, say, 3 (will change depending on the total auction budget).
(If we go with snake rather than auction, you’d lose a pick either 1 or 2 rounds higher than where you selected the player the previous year. For traded players, it would be based on where he was originally selected, and for waiver pickup keepers, you’d lose a pick in the final (or 2nd last if we use round+2) round).
I think you should be able to trade away keeper slots (though I’m not sure it’d happen much).
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Hmmm
Maybe we need to explore a different system than Yahoo. I’d like to do a dynasty, especially with MjwW and Pic in the league. I think it would be really neat.
I'd be up for it too, but I think we'd have to start a separate one
FWIW, I’m not sure there are any pools that allow mid-season drafts, so that would have to be done over Skype.
If we can get 10-12 people for that it might work well, and I’d be happy to tackle whatever weird rule changes we so desire. (Obviously 20 would be great, but I’m not sure how much luck we’ll have finding 20 people who want to invest that much time)
Reply Fail
You're Right
We’ll keep it structured for Yahoo. Easier and much, much cleaner.
I'd probably be up for it
Just let me know what is happening when. If I’m going back to school, I might as well find more things to waste my time.
I play in a band too.
www.chasingmercury.ca
Trades?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yes
If there’s ever something really really stupid, I’ll just veto it.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Does this mean I can't trade Vernon Wells for Mike Napoli?
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 8, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Admin veto or vote?
I prefer admin only, especially with this many players. Only veto if you suspect someone is stacking their buddy’s team or giving up. Don’t save people from stupid decisions.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 1:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Admin always
I run a bunch of leagues each year, and have never had a problem of having to veto a trade. That said, with this many people, it’s going to be way to hard to get 11 people to look at something in the same 2 day span, so I’m keeping it as commish for sure.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
+1
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 9, 2012 1:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
everyone rec this post so it shows up on front page
His 2011 wRC+ is 26
by Pikachu on Feb 8, 2012 10:03 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Please greenify the top level of the vote comments too so they're easier to pick out
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Thanks
Do you know if there’s a way to grant people admin powers over individual posts?
I’d like to be able to clean out the comments once in a while – like when an issue has been settled – 1) so the thread doesn’t get too long and laggy, and 2) so people who aren’t paying much attention stop discussing it
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Attention peoples
I’m sure many of you don’t bother looking at the original post after having read it once, and just click straight to the comments.
On this thread, check the post itself once in a while, since I’m using it to post updates and announcements that don’t really need their own comments+threads.
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Boourns
Gerse, can you add me to this league if someone drops out.
Miss one day of BBB, and look what happens. Haha
@VagabondBansal
by Vagabond13 on Feb 9, 2012 1:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
sure thing
and don’t worry, seeing as there are already 5 people on the wait list, I’m sure there will be no problem starting a second league (if you find someone who wants to commish it (worst case I’ll commish that one too and just field a team of 0 players)
ORDINAL TEAM RANKINGS ARE NOT ROBUST OR USEFUL ANALYTICAL TOOLS
Official name vote
Rank your top 2 choices. 1st = 5pts, 2nd = 3pts
Choose from the following list:
Reply Fail | Tom Dakers Invitational | Big & Strong League | Bluebird Bondage | The Men In White
Bonus note for the people who can’t follow instructions: ONLY PICK FROM THOSE FIVE. LIST TWO OF THEM. IN DECREASING ORDER OF PREFERENCE.
Reply Fail
Ha I replied with Bluebird Bondage just in reaction to the one above it because I didn't know what Badinage meant.
1. Bluebird Bondage
2. Reply Fail
"And I'm like forget Yuuuuuu"
1) The Men In White
2) Reply Fail
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 9, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
The irony of your first pick is funny.
"And I'm like forget Yuuuuuu"
by jays182 on Feb 9, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
no i am...
I believe that this name was because i put reply fail unintentionally in the name section and someone decided that was a good game
In AA we trust.
Please make your team name the same as your BBB name
until we have everyone in the league.
It’s too hard for me to track who’s who
Reply Fail
I kind of realized it after the fact.
Besides, I couldn’t pass up on having a team name called “Catch The Taste.”
In honor of the Jays 2nd Baseman who played with fire in more ways than one.
by Damaso's Burnt Shirt on Feb 9, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'll be in
Later tonight. Just on mobile right now..will be home later.
I play in a band too.
www.chasingmercury.ca
Just sent a second one
though yahoo confirms that I didn’t typo (it shows a list of everyone you’ve emailed and how many times, and I copied and pasted your email from the link at the bottom, so typoing would be impossible), so I’m not sure why it’s being a butt.
Holy Jeebus
I’m offline for less than 24 hours and I miss ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION?!
Anyway, shame I missed out on the voting, but now I am here, and I am ready to go… team is ready to go.
There She Gooooooes!
AHHAH I JUST NOTICED THE FIRST LINE
you sir are a riot
Too bad your post is stat less and lacks substance !!!
no really again, thanks for doing this
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
I added it an hour ago
Just for you
Also, despite my often writing comments the length of 4 fanposts, this really is my first fanpost.
slacker
+1 is only good if you actually rec the post
by Bowling_Guy25 on Feb 9, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I assure you it has literally nothing to do with you (specifically, that is)
by Gerse on Feb 9, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What does the winner get?
Obviously not a physical/monetary prize. Any ideas for fun rewards? I’d settle for a getting a Jays player to write on my Facebook wall.
Man who has four balls cannot walk
by Beer Leaguer on Feb 11, 2012 2:29 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Lawrie already
told me to #chillbro this year.
At least you're not a #keyboardwarrior #clown or #doucheoftheday
I don't always have exams, but when I do they are DURING the Jays home opener.
did a mock draft
was surprised at how low I got Bautista for. He cost $45, quite a bit less than some other players: Cabrera $57, Kemp $53, Pujols $52, Tulowitzki $50, Votto $46. Halfway through the draft I was saddened to realize I wouldn’t be able to nab decent jays players for cheap since I’m playing with other fans
quick question
I don’t get how the innings limit or games limit works. Like position players have a maximum of 162 games per season… so how would that be surpassed?
To avoid any confusion I'm pretty sure I set it to no limit.
Nonetheless, the reason it can occur is because you can chop and change your lineup each week. You can use your starters who project to pitch twice, bench your infielder whose team, for some reason, has 2 days off in a week, etc.
It’s a bigger issue in daily lineup change pools than in weekly
This Thread is getting hard to follow
I set up two votes on our Yahoo League page. One for draft style, and the other for league style. It’s a good place to start before we discuss anything else. Strategies differ between styles.
Why not?
The discussion should be moved to the league page at this point. It’s cleaner and easier to read. Plus BBB loads extremely slow for me at work.
Just a reminder that all threads close automatically after a set time...
Follow me @Minor_Leaguer
by Minor Leaguer on Feb 12, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
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